Golden Axe Series - Retro Playthrough - July 2015

[singlebanana]

Well...... We record the Golden Axe segment tonight gents. Should be a good time. We will have 5 people on the recording: myself, Fleach, Disposed Hero, this month's co-host, Fokakis79, and my co-op buddy and creator of our intro/outro Playcast theme, Cameron Johnson from Atma Weapon.

[MetalFRO]

I haven't delved into the 2 new characters yet, but GA3 is definitely the kind of leap from GA2 that Streets of Rage 3 SHOULD have been over its predecessor, much like SoR2 was to SoR.  Save for the incline/perspective issue, I'd say GA3 is the strongest in the series, from a design, replayability, and overall feel perspective.  The original still has a lot of charm to it, but it's really a shame that GA3 didn't get a proper US physical release.  I would be tempted to buy a repro of GA3, assuming someone has (or would) put one out.

Glad to have someone on my side about Golden Axe III.  No need to bother with repros, though.  Just get a Japanese cart and use a Game Genie with the codes:

BT7T-CA9E
AA7T-CA9R

I've mentioned these codes before, but I double checked that they would work in a Genesis with the TMSS lock out, and they do.

I would assume they'd work in a JVC X'Eye as well, wouldn't you think?  That's my primary Genesis unit right now on my main TV.  I think nostalgia plays a bit part in why people like GA the most, or for some, GA2, but I think objectively speaking, GA3 has the most going for it.

[singlebanana]

So we recorded the Golden Axe podcast last night and had a really fun time. I was initially worried about having 5 people on at one time, but it was really fun and like a big 2 hour party. Yes, we spoke about these games for 2 hours! It is that in-depth. I think how much fun we had will come across in the podcast.  I won't give too much away, but I will say that Macaulay Culkin would be quite impressed.

[Disposed Hero]

#GoldenAxeHomeAloneGateIsReal

In regards to the GA 3 debate, we discussed it quite a bit in the podcast, but I think the fact that it bears the name Golden Axe without really resembling the other games in the series could have easily skewed peoples expectations and resulted in some of the backlash that the game received.  However, Golden Axe: Revenge of Death Adder for the Arcade also doesn't resemble the first two games, and it is very highly regarded, although I haven't played it myself.

So doing my best to judge GA 3 on its own merits and not as a Golden Axe game, I still find it to be a good but not great beat 'em up.  One of my biggest complaints is that artistically the game seems incredibly bland and generic.  I feel like the art style of the first two games is oozing with character, and you can immediately recognize those games as Golden Axe.  The character and enemy sprites in 3 just felt really generic, and save for a couple of levels, most of the levels felt bland also.

As far as gameplay goes, GA 3 is much more ambitious than the previous games, and I think they had some really great ideas, but it feels like the execution of those ideas was lacking.  For me, the biggest problem was that most of the techniques in the game required certain button combinations that either made them difficult to pull off or resulted in them often registering by accident.  I can't tell you how many times I accidentally used the block and sweep moves while I was just simply trying to walk and attack at the same time.  The controls felt hampered by the limitations of the Genesis controller (only 3 buttons), and having more buttons for things like a dedicated Block button would have greatly improved the gameplay in my opinion.

That being said, I do think GA 3 commonly catches more flak than it deserves.  Playing this on the Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection on my PS3, I was likely experiencing some input lag from my HDTV, and I also think the PS3 controller doesn't lend itself as well to these types of games as an old-school controller like the Genesis.  I think if I could track down an original Japanese cart and play it on legitimate hardware, my opinion of the game would likely improve.

[Ikariniku]

I would assume they'd work in a JVC X'Eye as well, wouldn't you think?  That's my primary Genesis unit right now on my main TV.

I can't confirm this, personally, but a quick internet search says that, yes, the Game Genie codes will allow the Japanese GAIII to play in an X'Eye.  While the X'Eye's cartridge slot can accommodate MD carts, the cart's region lock will still lock you out without the Game Genie and codes.

I think nostalgia plays a bit part in why people like GA the most, or for some, GA2, but I think objectively speaking, GA3 has the most going for it.

I agree, and I'll go into some detail below...

#GoldenAxeHomeAloneGateIsReal

In regards to the GA 3 debate, we discussed it quite a bit in the podcast, but I think the fact that it bears the name Golden Axe without really resembling the other games in the series could have easily skewed peoples expectations and resulted in some of the backlash that the game received.  However, Golden Axe: Revenge of Death Adder for the Arcade also doesn't resemble the first two games, and it is very highly regarded, although I haven't played it myself.

I definitely agree here.  GA and GAII established a unique feel for the Golden Axe series, and GAIII broke from that.  While I feel this break improved and advanced the game, perhaps more could have been done to keep some of that original GA feel.  Sure, you can still dash attack to your heart's content, but much of the game feels like a SoR game.

So doing my best to judge GA 3 on its own merits and not as a Golden Axe game, I still find it to be a good but not great beat 'em up.  One of my biggest complaints is that artistically the game seems incredibly bland and generic.  I feel like the art style of the first two games is oozing with character, and you can immediately recognize those games as Golden Axe.  The character and enemy sprites in 3 just felt really generic, and save for a couple of levels, most of the levels felt bland also.

I can't really agree here.  I find the art in GA and GAII to be much more bland and generic than GAIII.  Little touches like Proud Cragger's broken shackles interest me much more than Thunderhead's green tunic.  I think the biggest factor in why the PCs may not feel like GA PCs is because they are different characters.  GAIII trades out the recognizable heroes for new ones.  However, those elements that remain the same (enemies, mounts, level design) do feel like the next step in GA art design.  Compared to hack and slashers like Knights of the Round and King of Dragons, I can immediately pick out GAIII as having its own style.

As far as gameplay goes, GA 3 is much more ambitious than the previous games, and I think they had some really great ideas, but it feels like the execution of those ideas was lacking.  For me, the biggest problem was that most of the techniques in the game required certain button combinations that either made them difficult to pull off or resulted in them often registering by accident.  I can't tell you how many times I accidentally used the block and sweep moves while I was just simply trying to walk and attack at the same time.  The controls felt hampered by the limitations of the Genesis controller (only 3 buttons), and having more buttons for things like a dedicated Block button would have greatly improved the gameplay in my opinion.

As a rule, I am against blocking.  If you have time to block in a beat 'em up, you have time to attack.  That said, I hadn't had any problem with accidental blocking until this playthrough.  I blame it on still being in "GA mode", where you constantly have to pivot and attack as enemies swarm you from both sides and you don't have the mobility to escape.  My usual style in GAIII is more deliberate, methodical grapples and dashes.  A dedicated block button would alleviate any input confusion (and allow me to fully ignore it).

That being said, I do think GA 3 commonly catches more flak than it deserves.  Playing this on the Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection on my PS3, I was likely experiencing some input lag from my HDTV, and I also think the PS3 controller doesn't lend itself as well to these types of games as an old-school controller like the Genesis.  I think if I could track down an original Japanese cart and play it on legitimate hardware, my opinion of the game would likely improve.

I always recommend playing beat 'em ups on original hardware.  Any amount of video or input lag will cause you to have a bad time.  Any emulation, no matter how good, can really negatively impact the beat 'em up experience.

[shaggy]

So I finally played GA III and I think it is the worse of the bunch.  It just doesn't feel right and doesn't play the same.

[singlebanana]

So I finally played GA III and I think it is the worse of the bunch.  It just doesn't feel right and doesn't play the same.

We go into the differences of all the games in the podcast, which I highly recommend listening to. We all kind of came away with a lot of the same sentiments that Disposed describes above:

(1) For most, if not all of us, this was our first time playing it, so the familiarity wasn't there;
(2) We have to look at it on it's own and more objectively as opposed to considering it as a "Golden Axe" game;
(3) It became a more enjoyable game the more I played it and was more fun in co-op for sure; and
(4) None of us played it on the original hardware and experienced some HD lag.

Still, the game has its merits and some of the things they did with it stylistically are inventive and should be recognized. It's my least favorite of the bunch, but again, I've spent a lot more time with the other two and have some great memories with the earlier games in the series.

I agree with Disposed somewhat when he says, "Golden Axe: Revenge of Death Adder for the Arcade also doesn't resemble the first two games, and it is very highly regarded." This is true in that it does not have the same characters from the original game, but that is pretty much the only major difference. Having played it a good deal, I can confirm that it still plays and feels like a Golden Axe game.

[singlebanana]

Also, something I would like to mention that we completely forgot to talk about with Golden Axe III was rescuing humans. When you free a captive, you are rewarded with an ankh. When you get an ankh, it appears under your character's life bar. Once you collect five, you get an extra life; you have to collect another five to get more.  This was a neat addition to the game, which I appreciate, especially in 1P mode.

[MetalFRO]

Also, something I would like to mention that we completely forgot to talk about with Golden Axe III was rescuing humans. When you free a captive, you are rewarded with an ankh. When you get an ankh, it appears under your character's life bar. Once you collect five, you get an extra life; you have to collect another five to get more.  This was a neat addition to the game, which I appreciate, especially in 1P mode.

Totally agree on this point - it added much needed relief to you, especially if you could hold out long enough to get 5 in a row.  Huge lifesaver (pun intended), and a welcome new feature.