Golden Axe Series - Retro Playthrough - July 2015

[singlebanana]

How is everyone doing?  Anyone started playing GA3 yet?

[Ikariniku]

I had a hard time deciding between GA I and GA II initially and I agree with your points about the controls. I have to give the edge to GA I for all the reasons you listed and I just think it looks better graphically than GA II.

I really disliked GA III the first time I played it, and even made a rather rude comment about it on my Twitter feed (which I'll get into on the podcast). However, I played it again with my buddy and we really enjoyed co-oping the game together. One of my issues with the game is that I am having to play it on the PS3 Sonic Collection. I'm not certain (and maybe someone can confirm), but I have the feeling that it probably looks better on the original hardware. Unfortunately, the Model 1 I have has the lockout chip. Comparing the PS3 versions of GA I and GA 2 to the original games, I think they look and play much better on the original hardware.

I don't know where my bad memories of Golden Axe II come from, but playing it again this month has been a revelation. 

Golden Axe I did a good job establishing a unique feel and separating itself from other beat 'em ups, which is no small feat.  However, it did a less good job at being fun and playable.  With no effective means of crowd control, a useless lunging reverse attack that has only resulted in enemies getting free hits, finicky attack range, finicky attack timing, and extremely rare health refills, Golden Axe I is a grind.  It manages to still be enjoyable, but frustration will be your constant companion.

Golden Axe II improves on Golden Axe I in pretty much every way while still feeling like a Golden Axe game.  The lunging reverse attack is replaced with a spinning attack that allows you to create some breathing room.  It doesn't even take away any health.  Attack range and timing has been tightened, making attacks more consistent and enjoyable.  This also made the mounts slightly more useful, though I still avoid them.  Health refills actually exist.  Maybe these improvements take away some of the edge-of-your-seat difficulty, but that felt like fake difficulty to me, anyway.  Another thing I quite enjoy is the ability to choose how much magic power you want to expend.  It let me use magic much more often.

In terms of graphics and music, I find both games about equal, though Golden Axe II employs some niftier, more advanced graphics tricks.  I played both games in stereo with the video upscaled to component through a DVD player, and the difference it made was astonishing.  The colors and lines of the graphics really popped this way.  For earlier 16-bit games, Golden Axe I and II really impress.

Going into this month, Golden Axe III was my favorite and, spoilers, it still is.  (And, yes, I am the same Ikariniku that responded to your tweets about Golden Axe III, Singlebanana.) 

Before I get into it, let's take a moment to examine the region lock issue.  Here's a page I found very helpful when trying to play Golden Axe III: http://www.sega-16.com/fo...n-your-Mega-Drive-Genesis

The tl;dr summation is that the region lock on Golden Axe III is in the game itself, not the console.  Even if you have a non-TMSS Genesis (as I do), it won't allow you to play Golden Axe III as-is.  Pin extenders such as Honey Bee adapters or Mega Keys are not enough.  The game itself runs a check on your system, and if it doesn't like what it sees, it locks you out.

Now, you could install a switchmod to get around this.  It's apparently pretty easy and will allow you to enjoy all your import Mega Drive games.  However, if all you want is to play Golden Axe III without picking up a soldering iron, what you need is a Game Genie.  Enter the following codes, and Golden Axe III will play with no problems:

BT7T-CA9E
AA7T-CA9R

Now, onto the game.  If there is a problem with Golden Axe III, it's that it is a departure from the Golden Axe formula.  This wasn't unusual for the third installments of beat 'em up franchises.  Final Fight & the Rushing Beat series do this, as well.  This makes playing Golden Axe III after playing I & II very weird.  Your thumbs are very confused going from the standard Golden Axe combat to Golden Axe III's more Streets of Rage-inspired combat.  While it is somewhat sad to see Golden Axe give up its trademark style, Golden Axe III is still fantastic.

The characters you can fight as are more varied, offering more playstyle variety.  of course, Proud Cragger is the man.  Dash Attacks, multiple combos/chains, special attacks, blocks, trips, jumping attacks.  There's enough variety that even two players playing the same character may not play the game the same way.  Fighting systems in beat 'em ups have to walk a line between depth and simplicity, and Golden Axe III walks that line very well.

The level design in Golden Axe III deserves special mention.  Shortly into the game, you find yourself on a moving platform pulled by some mounts.  I love these elevator/platform levels, and it was this stage that made Golden Axe  II stick in my head long after I played it on a cousin's Sega Channel in the 90s.  The game's branching paths give it a bit more variety and replayability, which beat 'em ups are often criticized for lacking.  Not from me, but it is a common complaint amongst the uninitiated.

Now, I really like the graphics in Golden Axe III.  Like much in the game, I suppose they depart from the Golden Axe norm, but I really like the chunkier sprites of Golden Axe III.  The sprites are also packed with little details.  Player character costumes have a lot of straps, chains, armor plates, and other accessories that give them a lot of, well, character.  I find this level of detail very engaging when you have to stare at the character for the entire game.

Now, one aspect present in all the Golden Axe games that I find very forward-thinking and ahead of its time is the fact that Golden Axe grades your performance.   This would become de rigueur in 3D beat 'em ups like Devil May Cry and was present in Mighty Final Fight, but Golden Axe had it from near the very inception of the genre.  These grades provide the numeric reward many gamers crave yet are often absent from classic beat 'em ups.  I think if this feature was more widespread, beat 'em ups would be a bit more highly regarded.  Stroking the reward center of the brain is a very smart thing for a video game to do.  The only problem is that the rubric by which Golden Axe grades you is completely opaque.  I don't know what I need to do to improve my score.  Something a little more intuitive would be a big improvement.

After this month, my appreciation for Golden Axe has definitely gone up, and I'll be returning to these games much more often in the future.

[JerryGreenwood]

a useless lunging reverse attack..........frustration will be your constant companion...........The only problem is that the rubric by which Golden Axe grades you is completely opaque.  I don't know what I need to do to improve my score.  Something a little more intuitive would be a big improvement.

Very nice post, but to play devil's advocate....

I disagree with "a useless lunging reverse attack". I found it extremely useful and I use it quite often. It's a power attack and it's not meant to be able to land easily. If you line up and distance yourself properly, it's your best friend.

Also, I don't think GA I is frustrating. I think it's incredibly easy, probably one of the easiest Genesis games (or NES) at the time. For 1989, there really aren't many easier games. I'm pretty sure everyone here beat GA I within a week.

For grading, remember that this is 1989. It was a pretty new concept. Given how simple the game is, it shouldn't be too hard to figure out how to improve your score. Two words - do better. How do you "do better"? Beat the game and limit the damage you take. There are no other possible parameters except for maybe actually killing enemies instead of them falling off a ledge. I think a grading system in 1989 is very intuitive.

[Ikariniku]

Very nice post, but to play devil's advocate....

I disagree with "a useless lunging reverse attack". I found it extremely useful and I use it quite often. It's a power attack and it's not meant to be able to land easily. If you line up and distance yourself properly, it's your best friend.

If I have time to line up an attack at the proper distance, I'd much rather use a running attack, a jump attack, or a running jump attack.  It was my hope that the reverse attack would be a means of escaping when enemies invariably surround you.  However, this is a task it is completely useless for.

Also, I don't think GA I is frustrating. I think it's incredibly easy, probably one of the easiest Genesis games (or NES) at the time. For 1989, there really aren't many easier games. I'm pretty sure everyone here beat GA I within a week.

I have an easier time playing Final Fight One on Super/Extra Hard, but that's a game I've spent a lot of time with.  Perhaps I haven't found the right groove for Golden Axe.

For grading, remember that this is 1989. It was a pretty new concept. Given how simple the game is, it shouldn't be too hard to figure out how to improve your score. Two words - do better. How do you "do better"? Beat the game and limit the damage you take. There are no other possible parameters except for maybe actually killing enemies instead of them falling off a ledge. I think a grading system in 1989 is very intuitive.

In my mind, there are many more possible parameters.  Even Mighty Final Fight was able to add more parameters than just "beat the game without dying".  Possibilities include: Number of attacks, types of attacks, number of enemies defeated, number of enemies defeated simultaneously, amount of magic used, missed attacks, mounts used, food eaten.  I do commend Golden Axe for having a grading system, but I stand by my statement that it is a bit inscrutable.

[MaterialHandlerMike]

I don't find Golden Axe that easy.

[MetalFRO]

@Ikariniku - good to read some well thought out commentary on GA3 - I'm looking forward to digging into that one a bit more after reading what you wrote.  I would have to agree with Jerry, however, as far as the reverse attack.  I find myself not able to pull it off much in GA2, and when I do, half the time it gets countered by an enemy attack.  In GA1, however, I found it very useful, if timed correctly, to avoid getting "juggled" between two enemies.  With the way it's changed in GA2, that jumping portion which is the 2nd half of the move, leaves you vulnerable for a moment, and I usually get hit.  I suppose if I learned to time it right it would work better for me, but it seems strange that they'd change the move so much.

I was playing GA2 for a little while last night, and while I'm making progress, I'm finding that I'm struggling with it quite a bit.  Enemy AI is definitely a little better, and it seems like every time an enemy has an opportunity to get the drop on me with a dash attack while my back is turned and I'm taking down one of his compatriots, they do.  I'm trying to mitigate that as much as possible by not putting as much distance between the 2 enemies as possible, so they don't auto-dash, but it doesn't always work.  Also, I found that slowly creeping up the screen so you only get 1 or 2 out of a group of enemies, can be a useful tactic.  It's always easier to take out 1 or 2 at a time, rather than 3 or 4, so take advantage of those times when you can.  The last boss in GA2 is a real buttface - he keeps spawning skeletons, and of course, they get in the way so I can't attack the main boss.  He's smart enough to dodge dash attacks that aren't close range, and you have to be real quick on the draw in an angled attack, and hope the skeletons don't interrupt you part-way and leave you susceptible to either a magic attack, or his large axe swing.

[JerryGreenwood]

In my mind, there are many more possible parameters.  Even Mighty Final Fight was able to add more parameters than just "beat the game without dying".

You're totally right. My point is - it was 1989 and off the top of my head, this is the first game (or one of the first) that included a grading system. Mighty Final Fight came out 4 years later and is much more sophisticated.

It was my hope that the reverse attack would be a means of escaping when enemies invariably surround you. 

If it did that, it would probably take away health (like most beat'em ups). Personally, I'm not a fan of that. I'd rather rely on positioning to use a power attack than the attack drain my health, but to each his own.

I don't find Golden Axe that easy.

That's fine. I don't find engineering that easy But looking at a list of early Genesis games, I think most of the other ones are harder. Thunder Force II, Rambo III, Alex Kidd, Forgotten Worlds, Last Battle, Space Harrier II, Ghouls N Ghosts, Super Thunder Blade, etc.....All of those games are much harder than GA I. Hell, I think Super Mario Bros is way harder than GA I. But maybe that's me.

[singlebanana]

I don't think that Golden Axe is that easy in terms of you pick a game up for the first time and expect to beat it. But, once you learn techniques and how to exploit it, you are able to take much less damage and make it much further. A few examples:

(1) Enemies typically take 4 basic hits to take down. If you see an enemy coming behind you, you may need to stop beating on your current enemy and move before you get hit in the back. Your instincts make you want to finish an enemy, but a lot of times, it is better to move before you get ambushed. You still get damage credit for the hits even if you don't knock an enemy down, so that helps.

(2) The running charge is essential to master. You can take many of the big enemies out with it and not take damage. Sure, it takes longer to dispatch them, but it's worth it.

(3) Exploit the environment. Ledges are great for attacking enemies from below and it's a must to throw enemies in pits for a quick victory.

[MetalFRO]

Excellent points, bananaman.  The thing that I've noticed with GA2 is, sometimes, despite feeling like I've executed the running charge correctly, I will get knocked back.  Case in point, the 2 mace-wielding buff bull dudes, when I'm charging from one to the other, left and right, sometimes I'll charge and get knocked back, and lose health, rather than connecting the attack.  It looks and feels like I'm executing the move right, and looks like maybe I'll hit them, but for whatever reason I get knocked back.  Anyone else notice/run into this?  I'm wondering if it's almost a Joust-type effect, whereby if I execute just a mite too soon, my character is lower than theirs when charging, and their character's positioning being higher, takes precedence.

[JerryGreenwood]

Breaking from the current discussion...

I'd like to point out that I love the story and ending. I am not one for "movies" in my video games. The story breaks in between levels with a short paragraph are perfect in my eyes. The little map is very charming. The ending is great. I know I beat the bad guy and saved the day, I don't need more than a couple of sentences to confirm that. I prefer the creativeness of a full rundown of the roster (including stats!) and a clever way of displaying the credits - throw a ball of letters and let the enemy homerun them into words.

The whole thing is great. Not too much, not too little. Love it.

[Fokakis79]

Completed GA1 yesterday.  Got my ass-kicked a little by Death Adder, so it made beating him a little hectic. I actually came close to not doing it.

I agree with singlebanana's assessment, it is essential to save as much health and lives as you can for the last fight.  This means doing as he says. Also get to know the different ways you can get rid of enemies. I believe on one stage, I knocked most enemies off the ledges, so that saved a lot of health. Some stages you can knock enemies off screen, and they will not return. I believe it is because they fell off a ledge off screen.

I sadly won't be able to get into GA3 because, I can't find the collection anywhere around here.  Maybe I can try some more places to see if I can find it, and play through it before recording the podcast.

Glad everyone is having a blast.

[JerryGreenwood]

There's not a lot of reading comprehension going on in these playthrough threads, is there? I've noticed it in every playthrough since day 1. These threads aren't War & Peace. Just saying.

[MetalFRO]

^^ Huh?  No comprende

I've half given up on GA2, because I've hit a wall, and can't seem to get through the final boss fight.  It's just frustration at this point, so I've moved on to GA3 for now.  There's a bit more nuance in the controls than I expected, as Ikariniku eluded to above.  I figured out how to pull off the downward thrust pretty well, and also the Down + Attack move that changes, based on the character you're using.  There are times when I've also used a block maneuver, though I'm not entirely sure what I did.  However, sometimes it backfires, and the enemies are already spamming me when the block runs out, so I need to look up and see how to properly pull that off to use it more strategically, and less haphazardly.  Also, I didn't realize the game had a double-jump until I saw it during the game's "attract" mode.  For those who said early on that the dragons/animals were crap - they're miles better in GA and GA2 than the tripe in this game.  I do like the dragon with fire that crawls the ground, but HOLY COW does it breathe slow, and leaves you wide open.  Almost not worth using in most cases, even the long-tongued bird mount deal, because enemies can jump-attack and get the drop on you more easily.  I do think the magic use is a half-step back, removing the charge ability found in GA2, and just arbitrarily using the highest level accumulated immediately, though I like the compromise of not using all pots for the top level spell, but only the number in that box.

Another thing worth mentioning is, I truly, deeply HATE the short incline sections.  Multiple "step" platforms are fine, because there's strategy there where you can slash away at enemies when they can't hit you, but those inclines are lousy.  It's difficult to gauge where you're at in relation to your enemy, and there have been numerous times where I thought I was right in front of an enemy, slashing away, and they're not taking any hits, but the moment they attack me, I'm taking damage.  The perspective is off, and I think that was a missed opportunity by SEGA, as it brings down an otherwise really solid game.  I like the branching paths, and I've noticed that the upper path appears to be the easier of the two, at least as far as I've played.  I made it to the final area on my first time with Ax Battler, taking the upper path all the way.  I took the lower path the second time, and noticed it seemed a fair bit harder.  I also played as Tyris last night, and quite like her move set, including the Down + Attack slide move, which has proven effective against bosses and some of the larger enemies.  I haven't delved into the 2 new characters yet, but GA3 is definitely the kind of leap from GA2 that Streets of Rage 3 SHOULD have been over its predecessor, much like SoR2 was to SoR.  Save for the incline/perspective issue, I'd say GA3 is the strongest in the series, from a design, replayability, and overall feel perspective.  The original still has a lot of charm to it, but it's really a shame that GA3 didn't get a proper US physical release.  I would be tempted to buy a repro of GA3, assuming someone has (or would) put one out.

[Disposed Hero]

The block maneuver in GA 3 is done by pressing back+attack.  I really hate that because often I just want to attack the enemy behind me, so I press back and attack in an effort to turn around and attack the enemy, and end up blocking in the opposite direction instead, resulting in me getting hit.

I agree with most of your points though.  I also really dislike the mounts in GA 3, and had similar frustrations with the incline parts.

[Ikariniku]

I haven't delved into the 2 new characters yet, but GA3 is definitely the kind of leap from GA2 that Streets of Rage 3 SHOULD have been over its predecessor, much like SoR2 was to SoR.  Save for the incline/perspective issue, I'd say GA3 is the strongest in the series, from a design, replayability, and overall feel perspective.  The original still has a lot of charm to it, but it's really a shame that GA3 didn't get a proper US physical release.  I would be tempted to buy a repro of GA3, assuming someone has (or would) put one out.

Glad to have someone on my side about Golden Axe III.  No need to bother with repros, though.  Just get a Japanese cart and use a Game Genie with the codes:

BT7T-CA9E
AA7T-CA9R

I've mentioned these codes before, but I double checked that they would work in a Genesis with the TMSS lock out, and they do.