The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past - Retro Playthrough - February 2015

[Disposed Hero]

The Skull Woods is one of my least favorite dungeons in the game, but I don't recall ever having much trouble beating Mothula.  Did you get the upgrade for your magic meter?  If not, it would be a huge help since you'll be using the fire rod in this fight.

[GrayGhost81]

I didn't do the magic meter upgrade because I had no magic dust when I got to the dude.

I'm gonna try to flame rod Mothula until the magic runs out then finish him with the hammer and sword.

And again, I didn't mean to get on a tangent about the role of healing items in video games. I was just saying I don't have any, and I need some.

[singlebanana]

The Skull Woods is one of my least favorite dungeons in the game, but I don't recall ever having much trouble beating Mothula.  Did you get the upgrade for your magic meter?  If not, it would be a huge help since you'll be using the fire rod in this fight.

I agree, one of my favorite dungeons, but I hate the boss battle. The moving floor and the spikes.....it's just an erratic and annoying fight IMO.

And again, I didn't mean to get on a tangent about the role of healing items in video games. I was just saying I don't have any, and I need some.

I'm with you man. I haven't picked up this game in two weeks after getting overly frustrated for continually running out of magic on the boss in Turtle Rock.  I'm going to have to slip out and hit the magic shop. Luckily, I have the doors open and the big key and really know my way around that dungeon now.

[douglie007]

I have achievement 1 and 3 so far. Im lost in the dark world might need to get my walk through book out

[GrayGhost81]

So I just beat Mothula. I spent about twenty minutes slashing the same shrub until I had three fairies, but all they did was take the edge off because I didn't even need them.

All you need to do with this joker is position yourself above him and smash his fool head with the hammer a few times.

Onward!

[JerryGreenwood]

By all means, let's go off on tangents. I'm a little disappointed about the lack of conversation about this game. It's widely considered one of the greatest games of all-time (and many consider it the BEST of all-time) and it's only got one more page than Kid Icarus so far. Allow me to write a lot and try and stir something up.

One of the reasons this game is beyond brilliant are the items. It's the smartest use of items in any video game I can think of. If anyone can challenge it, I accept.

Compare to games like SotN or Super Metroid. Those games have items that you need to obtain in order to pass certain areas, but it's not as clever as LttP.
As far as I can count, SotN has only has 5 items (7 for the average playthrough) that are necessary to beat the game. I'm not counting the Jewel of Open, because it's essentially only a key (which Zelda has plenty of). Two of them are basically one, singular item (the 2 rings), and one of them becomes redundant, the Leap Stone, which is unnecessary after you get the Bat Form.
At the end game of SotN, you only need 2 items to explore the entire map - the Bat and Mist forms. I'm not counting the body parts of Dracula. If I did, then I could count the 3 pendants and 7 crystals in Zelda. Those don't count, because you don't actually "use" those items.

Super Metroid is much better. I can think of 11 items that are necessary for the average playthrough (this includes items that doesn't cover up for tricks like wall-jumping, which as we've discussed, is a tool for speed runs). Again, I am not counting items that act as "keys to doors" like Missiles and Super Missiles, because I'm not counting dungeon keys or big keys for Zelda. Keys aren't really useable items and they don't take any imagination from the developers. As for the 11 items - morph ball, bomb, Varia Suit, Gravity Suit, Missile/Super Missile (you need at least one to damage bosses/Metroids), Super Bomb (I'm counting this because you there is one area where you need it and it's not as blatant as using a key, despite only needing it once), Hi Jump, Speed Booster, Space Jump, Ice Beam, Grappling Beam.
However, like SotN, some of these items become redundant at the end of the game. Space Jump replaces the need for Hi Jump and Grappling Beam.

LttP takes the cake with 18 items (maybe even 20 as I don't remember if you need the Boomerang to diagonally hit some switches or the bow & arrow to kill certain enemies). I won't list the items at the risk of spoiling (plus I've been writing this post for about an hour and I'm getting tired), but only 2 of them become redundant at end game.
At end game, you still need to use 16-18 unique items to explore the entire map. To me, that is astonishing and simply genius. The developers didn't take the easy way out and program into the game; Yellow Key, Green Key, Red Key etc. They thought of 16-18 different obstacles that require a specific item to clear said obstacle. I can't say it enough....genius.

A special to those who actually read this.

[GrayGhost81]

Had quite a productive morning so far. Got my sword tempered. Got the fourth bottle. Got two heart pieces, completing a heart container. Got my bomb capacity to 50 and my arrow capacity to 70. Got to the Ice Palace and am hoping to knock it out on my lunch break.

So now I want to stir the pot. I'm playing with a walkthrough. I am enjoying the game a lot this way and making Link into a gangsta. However the very instant I don't know what I'm supposed to do next I get bored.

Come at me bro.

(While I was typing this Jerry posted his really well spoken thoughts, which I don't have time to respond to at the moment. Just noting it so ya'll don't miss his post above this one.)

[JerryGreenwood]

@GrayGhost - I personally think the Ice Palace is the hardest dungeon in the game. Even though I beat the game a few times before, I still had trouble figuring it out. And thanks for the kind words.

@Douglie - Where you at? What was the last thing you've done/beaten?

[Shadow Kisuragi]

Since you want some conversation on this game...

Having played quite a few of the early Zelda titles, I find it interesting how Link to the Past is integrated into many of the Zelda timelines. An example would be the Ocarina that you can find, which later tied into Ocarina of Time. Has anyone else found items, mechanics, people, or anything else that ties into the other Zelda games?

[GrayGhost81]

Ice Palace is done, son. On to Misery Mire.

[Disposed Hero]

@JerryGreenwood:  While I won't disagree with your claim about LttP having the most clever use of items in a video game, I've never really given it enough thought to say either way.  I always thought dropping the player into a large world to explore but closing off certain areas until the player obtained the items needed to access those areas was a great and interesting design.  The writer of an old survival-horror blog that I used to frequent coined the term 'recursive unlocking' when describing this concept in games such as Resident Evil (which mostly just uses keys instead of unique items), but I think it applies to games like LttP and Super Metroid as well.

So now I want to stir the pot. I'm playing with a walkthrough. I am enjoying the game a lot this way and making Link into a gangsta. However the very instant I don't know what I'm supposed to do next I get bored.

I don't blame you for using a walkthrough.  While I do find it fun and rewarding to try and figure this stuff out on my own (especially in Zelda games), I usually don't waste too much time before resorting to a walkthrough myself.  I may have had the time and patience for it when I was a kid, but we're adults now with full-time jobs and other responsibilities.  We only have so much time to play games at all these days, and most people don't want to spend hours of that time wandering aimlessly when they can easily look up the solution and move on.  And like you said, you're enjoying the game more this way, and that's really what's important.  Isn't that why we play games in the first place?  

Having played quite a few of the early Zelda titles, I find it interesting how Link to the Past is integrated into many of the Zelda timelines. An example would be the Ocarina that you can find, which later tied into Ocarina of Time. Has anyone else found items, mechanics, people, or anything else that ties into the other Zelda games?

One theme that I think was introduced in LttP and used in some of the later Zelda titles was the use of a dual world system, that is, exploring the world in its original form and then exploring it again in a different context.  LttP has the Light and Dark Worlds.  Ocarina of Time had the time travel thing going on.  Twilight Princess had the Twilight Realm.  I'm sure there are a ton of other themes and concepts that were introduced in LttP that made it into later Zelda games.

I regularly watch the Youtube channel Game Grumps, and in their current playthrough of Zelda II, they brought up the fact that most (maybe all?) of the town names from that game were reused as character names in Ocarina of Time.  Most long running game series have recurring themes such as these, and it's always cool when you discover them.

[GrayGhost81]

I don't blame you for using a walkthrough.  While I do find it fun and rewarding to try and figure this stuff out on my own (especially in Zelda games), I usually don't waste too much time before resorting to a walkthrough myself.  I may have had the time and patience for it when I was a kid, but we're adults now with full-time jobs and other responsibilities.  We only have so much time to play games at all these days, and most people don't want to spend hours of that time wandering aimlessly when they can easily look up the solution and move on.  And like you said, you're enjoying the game more this way, and that's really what's important.  Isn't that why we play games in the first place? 

Yes! Thanks for backing me up, bro. I'm actually getting a kick out of the fact that I'm playing this game exclusively at work (to do the Ice Palace in one sitting I had to take what I call a "deluxe" lunch, plus I can print the walkthrough for each dungeon on my way to the lunch room ).

But yeah, I have quite a lot going on right now and hundreds of other games I want to play so this is just the nature of the beast. I kind of wish I had played this back when I was a kid and only owned a handful of games and had all summer to wander around in it, but it makes me think of Monkey Island and how it would take me and my dad like a week just to figure out one damn puzzle. I'm not sure I will ever be able to play a game that way again, but I do indeed have fond memories of it, just not with this particular game.

[Shadow Kisuragi]

There's absolutely no problem with using a walkthrough, as long as you're enjoying yourself.

[MetalFRO]

I don't blame you for using a walkthrough.  While I do find it fun and rewarding to try and figure this stuff out on my own (especially in Zelda games), I usually don't waste too much time before resorting to a walkthrough myself.  I may have had the time and patience for it when I was a kid, but we're adults now with full-time jobs and other responsibilities.  We only have so much time to play games at all these days, and most people don't want to spend hours of that time wandering aimlessly when they can easily look up the solution and move on.  And like you said, you're enjoying the game more this way, and that's really what's important.  Isn't that why we play games in the first place? 

This is so highly relevant, I can't even explain it.  I'm enjoying my time with LttP, what I've been able to put in, but due to work commitments, personal stuff, etc. I haven't been able to play now since last Friday night.  I've been able to squeeze in some real brief Game Boy and PSP time, but sitting down to play LttP, even with the advent of Wii U Game Pad play, and being able to use the save-state feature provided by the Wii U VC, I still feel like I have to have no less than an hour or two of awake time to sit and play, primarily because it's my first time through.  Tonight when I get home from work, I'll have supper, spend some time with my wife, and then go to my church for a commitment that will likely keep me there between 1.5-2 hours.  Assuming I'm not too tired when I'm done, I *might* jump on the treadmill for a bit, since I've made a commitment to myself to lose weight, and by the time that's done and I get cleaned up afterward, I might be lucky to have 2 hours this evening to play.  Not every day is like that, and not every week is filled with days like that, but I'm sure many of you have stories like that where jobs, spouses, kids, life, etc. take up so much time that being able to dedicate time to gaming is a luxury.

Not to get too tangential here, but I think that's why so many developers, with the advent of the memory card, started shifting development of games from pick up and play titles to games where you can save your progress frequently and die/continue endlessly, because they wanted you to play the game, but not have to feel like you had to dedicate hours at a time to feel like you were progressing.  There's a bit of a dichotomy there, because with the CD format came more storage space to tell more epic narratives, but they shifted toward that sort of epic storytelling and increased presentation, while not punishing the player for not landing that platform jump just right and making them start all over and replay the last 6 stages because their pixel-perfect jumping skills needed honing.  If you think about it, other than games like LttP or RPG's, most of the games many of us grew up playing, as in, shmups, action platformers, beat-em-ups, etc. were all games that could be played and finished in just under or over an hour, if you played them straight through.  The replay value came in scoring, mastering technique, trying to 1CC or 1LC a game, finding all secrets, getting all items (Mega Man X, for example), etc.  As the industry embraced the CD format and 3D graphical presentation, there was a huge paradigm shift toward games that favored story and presentation over core gameplay mechanics.  Not that these new games weren't fun, and didn't have replay value, but the approach was quite different, and yielded very different play experiences.

[nupoile]

I'm glad there is finally some discussion here. I've been waiting for this!

I assumed I'd have to wait since I finished the game completly, right away, before some of you had even started.....

I've finished the game, just now 

....I only have time to play because I'm on vacation.....

I've finished all the achievements for this playthrough too.

....the wait has been hard. I keep wanting to talk about the game.


I used a walkthrough too, for parts. I was going to mention it but didn't want to tempt anyone who didn't want to be tempted. This is the one I used:

http://strategywiki.org/w...Zelda:_A_Link_to_the_Past

Actually, I used it mostly in the last half of the game. For the most part it was just to point out what to head for next, I skimmed it, not studied it. The last couple of dungeons I did look at more closely though.

I think most of us really do fall into that category of "busy-people-who-like-games-and-own-way-too-many-to-play." There isn't anything wrong with getting what enjoyment you can from a game and moving on. Sure, I missed out on some of the puzzle solving (not all by any means) but I was still able to appreciate that part of LttP.

If any of you are playing this game for the first time and not using any sort of a guide, I applaud you. That is awesome.


@JerryGreenwood - There doesn't seem to be a "thumbs up!" emoticon, but if there was....I agree with you.



Writing this while tired from a very long day of work, if anything from above seems weird just assume winky face  " "