November Retro Community Playthrough - Super Metroid

[JerryGreenwood]

Has anyone else run through the game again to get a better clear time/item %?

I made a copy of my data kinda early so I can still give under 2:30 a shot. Also I'm slowly making progress with the items. I'm pretty sure I got everything in Norfair.

I'm also not fond of the wall jump.  I'm used to wall jumping like in Batman on NES - simple, elegant, and effective.  SM's wall jump seems to be just a bit more complicated than it needs to be.

Keep in mind that you're not "supposed" to wall-jump. It's a trick that enables you to skip parts of the game and get certain items earlier than you are supposed to. It's supposed to be difficult to execute. I think the game would suffer greatly otherwise.

In games like Batman or Ninja Gaiden, it's a major part of the game mechanics. Those games would be severely flawed if wall jumping wasn't easy.

[singlebanana]

I disagree. How is it that you are NOT suppose to wall jump when there is a part of the game where some animals show you how to do it? And that area is only passable by using said wall jump. It's as much part of this game as any item or anything else in it.

As far as the difficulty, there certainly is quite a learning curve to mastering it. For first time players such as myself, it is very frustrating without any instruction and caused me a great deal of aggravation and time in a few rooms. It was an off-putting part of the game, but nothing that would make me not play it again, or say that it overly affected how much I enjoyed the game overall. As much as people gush over SM, it's not a perfect game, and I'd contend that a perfect game has never been made, but I'd put it in the Top 3 SNES games I've ever played.

[JerryGreenwood]

The game is designed and intended for you to beat without wall jumping once. That room is a secret room, it's not a necessary part of the game. If you happen to find the room, the game rewards you with a new trick. You're not "supposed" to get the Spazer early or get Super Bombs before entering Norfair, etc, but you can if you're skilled and experienced enough.

That's my point. It's intentionally difficult because it's main purpose is to give experienced veteran players a new way to play. Nowhere in the game (besides the room) are you required/supposed to wall jump.

[RetroRage]

I have to agree with Jerry here.  Wall Jumping is an advanced technique used to sequence break, but isn't necessary to at the very least complete the game.

And I kinda like that they made that wall jumping room so difficult to get out of, because once you're good enough to make it to the top you've mastered it enough to get almost anywhere else in the game.  If they made some kind of cheap way to get out of that room (besides the space jump) I think most players would give up on the Wall Jump fairly quickly.

[MetalFRO]

And I kinda like that they made that wall jumping room so difficult to get out of, because once you're good enough to make it to the top you've mastered it enough to get almost anywhere else in the game.  If they made some kind of cheap way to get out of that room (besides the space jump) I think most players would give up on the Wall Jump fairly quickly.

I'll throw my $.02 in here and disagree.  It took me a good 8-10 minutes to wall jump effectively enough to get to the top of that room.  Even so, I still had difficulty properly executing wall jumps in other areas of the game, even yesterday when I played for some 5 hours and attempted to use the technique numerous times.  There are spots where NOT having the wall jump makes the game quite difficult (unless I'm missing something about how to traverse certain locations), so if that's a secret area where you learn the wall jump, I'd shudder to think of what beating the game w/o it would entail.

[JerryGreenwood]

I still had difficulty properly executing wall jumps in other areas of the game.
There are spots where NOT having the wall jump makes the game quite difficult (unless I'm missing something about how to traverse certain locations)

Again, there are no areas in the game where you need to wall jump. There aren't any difficult areas that are made easier because of the wall jump, you're probably missing something on that one. I'm sure there have been plenty of people who have beaten the game without even knowing about it. It's never helped me beat the game.

All the wall jump does is allow you to take short cuts in the game and grab a few extra missiles here and there. It's an optional, secret trick.

[singlebanana]

Even though you can "beat the game" without using any wall jumps, it doesn't mean that they aren't useful in certain areas and that using it eliminates some backtracking. Sure, if you've got everything mapped out or know the game inside and out like a speed runner (which the two of you are) than perhaps you don't have to use it. However, for someone just playing the game for the first time, during backtracking it proves quite useful in places, especially before you obtain the space jump. I think you guys who play this game quite often are forgetting what it was like to encounter this frustration initially like some of the rest of us. It's pretty telling that the people who are having difficulty with it are the handful of us who are playing it for the first time. Essential to beat the game, maybe not, but very useful in getting around, YES.

[JerryGreenwood]

However, for someone just playing the game for the first time...

Like I said, it's not a tool meant for someone playing their first time. If you find it, great! The game just got slightly easier for you because now you can wall jump. But overall, it's meaningless.

It's main purpose is to speed run and it's the furthest thing from necessary.

I'm not mocking anyone or acting like I'm cool because I've beaten the game before. As an experienced player, I'm explaining why the wall jump is purposely difficult to perform and that it is not meant to be used as a tool for a beginner to beat the game. If you want to use it as a tool, that's fine, but technically you'd be speed running.

[Shadow Kisuragi]

http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Wall_Jump

The Wall Jump (also referred to as the Kick Climb or Triangle Jump[1] in other instances) is a technique that speed runners use in the 2-D Metroid games to gain access to areas that would normally require a special upgrade such as the High Jump Boots.

Interesting background on it for Super Metroid:
http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Hell

For my usage of the Wall Jump, I used it in the original Metroid and Super Metroid. I struggled with it quite a bit until I learned how it worked properly in Metroid II (but at that point had the Spider Ball), but it's useful when you don't know where to go and you're exploring for the first time. Is it required? No, and you can complete the game without using it once.

[RetroRage]

Even though you can "beat the game" without using any wall jumps, it doesn't mean that they aren't useful in certain areas and that using it eliminates some backtracking. Sure, if you've got everything mapped out or know the game inside and out like a speed runner (which the two of you are) than perhaps you don't have to use it. However, for someone just playing the game for the first time, during backtracking it proves quite useful in places, especially before you obtain the space jump. I think you guys who play this game quite often are forgetting what it was like to encounter this frustration initially like some of the rest of us. It's pretty telling that the people who are having difficulty with it are the handful of us who are playing it for the first time. Essential to beat the game, maybe not, but very useful in getting around, YES.

The game gives you an intended route, and that intended route doesn't include the necessity of the wall jump, or the shine spark for that matter.  Backtracking is supposed to be difficult and the game is deliberately mapped out to drive you nuts.  Once you begin using those techniques and going in areas you're "not supposed to be in" yet (sequence breaking), then all bets are off and the world opens up and backtracking becomes no big deal anymore.  The point of the difficult learning curve of those maneuvers is it's not supposed to be easy to sequence break or backtrack, so the game loosely teaches you the fundamentals of the wall jump and the shine spark (both technically secret maneuvers) without actually teaching you anything.  The game isn't supposed to be easy the first time through, and I think that's what makes it so great.  The better you get, the more you want to make the game your bitch.

[Duke.Togo]

That's one thing I absolutely love about this game. There is so many extra techniques packed in that aren't required at all. Most games would have cut them, but this game shows as a big gift to fans. Simple enough the first time through, but amazing depth for those looking for it.

[JerryGreenwood]

Yes. I'm not sure if the developers had speed runs in mind or they just wanted to make the game deeper, but those extra techniques like wall jumping, mach balling, etc. are so far ahead of it's time. They were innovators.


I'd also like to mention how awesome the title screen is. Even though it was only the third game in the series, I felt the Metroid creature was big icon in the world of Nintendo.
You turn on the power, you hear that "horror movie" music, you seen a few clips, you see "Metroid 3", then everything zooms out and you see a lab with dead scientists on the ground and the seemingly innocent Metroid in his glass case and then the classic Metroid theme echoes through your TV mixed with Metroid chirps.

20 years ago, that was mind blowing. It was creepy. It scared me.

[singlebanana]

Though I don't know for sure, I feel like the developers had to have speed runs in mind when creating this game. I don't see how there could be any other explanation in terms of all of the secret techniques and the various endings you get for finishing the game under certain times.

I agree, the intro screen is really great and that Metroid screech is pretty haunting. One thing we discussed on the podcast was whether we thought that SM could be considered a horror title. As you all probably know, or have guessed, this game, and the ones prior to it, were heavily influenced by the Alien franchise and there are several allusions to the first three movies in SM.

[MetalFRO]

I finally finished it! I got a 70% item collection rate, which isn't bad for my first play through, and that I didn't consult any guides until around halfway through. I reached my ship with just 3 seconds to spare. Awesome feeling having finally played through Super Metroid. Great game overall, this was LONG overdue.

[techwizard]

congrats metalfro! i feel the same now that i've beaten it, really happy to finally understand what the big deal is (and it is a big deal).