US Election 2008

[Sirgin]

I hate voting apathy. Being able to vote is a privelage, not a God-given right that should be taken for granted.

I agree completely. Complaining about politics yet not doing the small effort of standing in line a bit to vote is an outrage. And if you're unable (for whatever reason) to go and vote; let someone else vote for you. People shouldn't be so careless about it.

I remember hearing on CNN that there are more people excited about the US elections than ever before; and that more people will vote. I'm not sure if that true, but I hope it is because having everyone interested in politics is a good thing.

Yep, and I ain't even old enough. 

Just because I'm curious: will your vote be legal if you're underaged?

[Wolfman Walt]

I hate voting apathy

In the words of Southpark, why should I vote between a douchebag and a turd sandwich? Neither canidate really offers alot that I like and it's not like my vote would have a say in my state, which is so historically republican that I'd put money on this election and the next one voting republican.

Newsflash - we use the electorial system and unless your state is projected to be a swing state, there's little chance that your vote actually matters. Lets say for a moment that I did vote for Obama, something I wouldn't do as I'd vote McCain before Obama. But let's pretend I would. So yay, I may have added 1% in my district to Obama. Now, lets say 48% of the district voted for Obama, and 51% for McCain. Guess where my vote just went? Out the window. Popular vote doesn't matter.

For reference, though, I'm writing in Thompson.

[Sirgin]

Newsflash - we use the electorial system and unless your state is projected to be a swing state, there's little chance that your vote actually matters. Lets say for a moment that I did vote for Obama, something I wouldn't do as I'd vote McCain before Obama. But let's pretend I would. So yay, I may have added 1% in my district to Obama. Now, lets say 48% of the district voted for Obama, and 51% for McCain. Guess where my vote just went? Out the window. Popular vote doesn't matter.

That's another very interesting thing. The winner really does take it all.

In Belgium, every party gets to keep their votes and they get "elected" once they have 5% or more votes. Obviously that leads to a system with many parties and a lot of compromising. It definitely makes it harder to govern. I honestly couldn't tell which system is best, both have their benefits.

[James]

In the words of Southpark, why should I vote between a douchebag and a turd sandwich? Neither canidate really offers alot that I like and it's not like my vote would have a say in my state, which is so historically republican that I'd put money on this election and the next one voting republican.

If you don't want to vote for either of them, spoil your ballot like I said. It counts as a vote for no-one. At least it will show you don't like them.

Also, perhaps the reason your state is historically Republican is because the Democrats all think "It will be Republican anyway, so I won't vote".

Statistics can say an awful lot. In our last General Elections, Labour lost a lot of votes but stayed in power. They took the loss of votes as a kick in the backside. They didn't really change, but still, it showed them they're less popular.

Just because the group you voted for didn't get into power, doesn't mean your vote was wasted. If no one voted at all for one side because they all thought their votes would be wasted it would give a very unbalanced view of the general population's political stance.


No idea who Thompson is, by the way.

[Wolfman Walt]

f you don't want to vote for either of them, spoil your ballot like I said.

That's the same as not voting, the only difference is that one requires me to put effort in wasting my vote.

perhaps the reason your state is historically Republican is because the Democrats all think "It will be Republican anyway, so I won't vote".

Or because my state has a majority republican populace. It'd be like me saying "The reason why California is a democrat state is because all the republicans aren't voting there!" when in actuality it'd be because democrats outnumber republicans by a great deal.  Good argument though, I can definetly see the logic behind it, unfortunetly, that's not how it works. Look at the 2004 election where more people had voted than in recent elections. States that are historically republican stayed historically republican and vice versa as far as I can tell. It's the swing states that matter most.

[logical123]

I hate voting apathy. Being able to vote is a privelage, not a God-given right that should be taken for granted.

I agree completely. Complaining about politics yet not doing the small effort of standing in line a bit to vote is an outrage. And if you're unable (for whatever reason) to go and vote; let someone else vote for you. People shouldn't be so careless about it.

I remember hearing on CNN that there are more people excited about the US elections than ever before; and that more people will vote. I'm not sure if that true, but I hope it is because having everyone interested in politics is a good thing.

Yep, and I ain't even old enough. 

Just because I'm curious: will your vote be legal if you're underaged?

I was kidding, and no, it wouldn't count.

[James]

f you don't want to vote for either of them, spoil your ballot like I said.

That's the same as not voting, the only difference is that one requires me to put effort in wasting my vote.

It's NOT, though. It goes into statistics and says a lot more than people who can't be arsed to spend a few minutes going to a polling station just to tick a box. As I said, it counts as a vote for no-one. Sitting at home complaining on the internet about the government doesn't tell anyone important about your disproval of both parties. They don't throw spoilt ballots in the bin to be immediately recycled into toilet paper before they count them.


If it was the Eurovision Song Contest you weren't voting for, I wouldn't care. The Eurovision doesn't matter to anything. The day after, everyone goes back to their normal lives. But when it's a case of how the country is run, or in the case of America, how the World is run, I have extreme disdain for people who can't be bothered.


I don't care who people vote for or not, as long as they exercise the privelage that so many people fought hard to defend. A SPOILT BALLOT IS NOT A WASTED VOTE.

[Wolfman Walt]

Not voting goes into statistics as well and says just as much. It says that no canidate had ANY sort of appeal. If only 10% of the country voted because the other 90% refused to due to bad canidates, I'm pretty sure that statistic would be entered and it'd affect things. When you spoil the ballet, you're not saying what you want so it affects things in the same way as not voting. The big deal, as far as I can tell is some sort of idea that you HAVE to vote, which is bumkiss. If I don't see a canidate I remotely support, I just won't vote because not voting is just as powerful a statement sometimes as supporting your favorite canidate.

A spoilt ballet IS a wasted ballet because you're not using it to do anything. It accomplishes the same thing and affects data just as much as not voting.

[phoenix1967]

All votes count. PERIOD!

And not voting means you're CHOOSING not to be counted. No more no less.

[Wolfman Walt]

Oh really? Please tell me what writing "Giant Penis for President" counts for, please.

[Sirgin]

Oh really? Please tell me what writing "Giant Penis for President" counts for, please.

You know, phoenix's post would've been a nice moment to end that arguement/discussion yet you decided to bring it up, again.

They have their opinion, you have yours. Try to let things go after a while, especially on an internet forum.

[REFan]

obama

[The Metamorphosing Leon]

Oh really? Please tell me what writing "Giant Penis for President" counts for, please.

You know, phoenix's post would've been a nice moment to end that arguement/discussion yet you decided to bring it up, again.

They have their opinion, you have yours. Try to let things go after a while, especially on an internet forum.

What phoenix said didn't end anything it simply reaffirmed his own views, and in a rather strong manner. There's no reason for someone not to respond to a strongly worded opinion if they think differently.

Besides, an internet forum is the perfect place to never let anything go, ever.

Really you're no better by adding this comment that I feel I have to respond to. Hell I'm no better for responding, but so flows the intarweb, and may it never end. 

[Sirgin]

Besides, an internet forum is the perfect place to never let anything go, ever.

Really you're no better by adding this comment that I feel I have to respond to. Hell I'm no better for responding, but so flows the intarweb, and may it never end.

I guess you do have a point. But it's exactly because an internet forum is the perfect place to never let anything go that people should learn to let go. I used to visit a forum where every single difference of opinion ended up in a flame-covered discussion that lasted for pages on end. I really wouldn't like to see RFG fall into that trap because it's a very unpleasant place to be.

I usually won't interfere in others' discussions but there has been a whole page of James and Walt already going like this [Simplified Version]:


James: Making a none vote counts.
Walt: It's the same as not voting at all.
James: No it isn't.
Walt: Yes it is.
James: No it isn't.
Walt: Yes it is.
...

I just didn't think it was worth starting that over again, but now with phoenix instead of James.

[NES_Rules]

Here's my opinion on not voting vs. spoiling your ballot.
By not voting you may think you're sending the message of "I'm not voting because none of these candidates are any good" but what you're really sending is "I'm too lazy to get out and vote".
By spoiling your vote, again you think you're sending the message of "I'm not voting because none of these candidates are any good" but what your ballot may be interpreted as is, that you're retarded and aren't mentally/physically able to vote properly.

So really, what you need to do is go out and vote for the things you do care about. It's not like this election is only about McCain vs. Obama. There are plenty of other offices up for election as well as issues, vote for the ones you want, leave the others blank.