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[img width=450 height=456]http://i.imgur.com/K6g9pTq.jpg[/img] Nobody is saying that the game, system, or toy that you have isn't cool or that it isn't in decent shape. All I'm saying is that it isn't "Rare" and it most certainly isn't "Mint". I'm realistic. I think that some of the time people who post something for sale that they mark as rare or mint/near mint are doing so to entice a buyer. I think that some people, maybe because of how badly they want the item or because of the collecting bug, want to believe that it is rare or mint to feel good about their score. I just wanted to take a few minutes to explore these words and how overused they have become on the forums and in game collecting in general. Mint condition refers to a newly minted item that is right off the production line. It does not have a single blemish. By definition, nothing that has been opened can be considered to be in mint condition. I'm not really a fan of the term "minty" either. It's like someone saying that they are "kind of pregnant". Nope. Either you are pregnant or you aren't. I know you are just trying to convey that the Boxed NES games you just came across aren't crushed or faded, but they probably aren't close to "mint" and by using "minty" you are cheapening the term. Shouldn't mint be extremely hard to find? Once in a lifetime? A CRAZY big deal? Shouldn't finding something truly in mint condition be a "Rare" occurrence? Uh oh, there's the other one......."Rare." [img width=700 height=525]http://i.imgur.com/UMJNSYv.jpg[/img] Try and find the rare game here. There isn't one. Rare has become more of a joke than Mint or Minty. I just did a search on Craigslist for "rare video games" and here are some highlights: "I'm selling my rare nes mega man games, Mega Man 1, and Mega Man 2" Nope " The Legend of Zelda (Rare Gray Cart)" by "rare" you mean "everybody has one"? "10 vintage Nintendo 64 video games including the Rare Mario Smash Bros." Not even close The only one that MIGHT be in the conversation of Rare is this one: " Darius Gaiden game for Sega Saturn. Still Factory Sealed with hangtab attached and original store sticker" Yes, I would concede the point that when you take an uncommon game and add "factory sealed", you have something that could be considered rare. Extra points for proper use of "First come, first served." In fairness to the overusers of "rare," the Internet has made the world smaller. If the only source we had to buy games were local stores, tag sales (that we found by driving, not via apps and craigslist), and trading with friends, then many of the items listed as rare these days COULD be considered rare because you really don't see them very often. Having the ability to jump on ebay and buy almost anything that you want to at any given time, makes almost everything less rare. Things are more attainable now. In those terms, only the rarest of the rare games, like Stadium Events, stand out. Without the Internet, way more things would be rare. Examples: Could the classic PC game, Homeworld stand out as rare? If you don't count internet trading, I would argue yes, of course it's rare. You NEVER see most big box PC games in the wild, let alone one as good as this gem. [img width=700 height=302]http://i.imgur.com/lIr4E3a.jpg[/img] The Steam Version is as close as I am getting to this one Here is another hotly debated one: Generally, 32X games are less common than finding a bucket of Genesis or Super NES games at a flea market. You would think that two of the harder games to find would be considered rare. But when you talk about "rare" World Series Baseball, Pitfall, or Spider Man, you hear shouts of "They aren't rare, you see them on forums and ebay all the time. Well, I've never seen one, so I consider them uncommon to rare. Here you will see a photo of my copy of Spider Man for the 32X [img width=700 height=525]http://i.imgur.com/3srSv0h.jpg[/img] At the end of the day, nothing is going to chance. You can't make the Internet do anything. You can't fix grammar, can't adjust spelling habits, and can't change vocabulary. Some of the older folks here run the risk of SOUNDING like the older folks when we complain about the way things is [sic]. I don't mean to attack the people who use these terms, just point out that there may be a better way to use them. Keep on gaming.
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Great article Bil. I agree to some extent, but I differentiate the words "mint" and "minty." I think you are correct in that "mint" is something that appears to have just come off the press, where as "minty" (at least to me) is merely an adjective used to describe something that has been opened, but appears to be in or close enough to a similar condition as if it had just been opened. "Minty" is a more recent slang term, which describes this condition and has been pretty much accepted into the common vernacular. I definitely agree that these words are sometimes misused, but I think that often the intent (especially of the latter, "minty") isn't meant to throw off a buyer or express some untruth about a score (though I recognize that on few occasions it is). I think it's a matter of semantics and even through these words are very similar in appearance, they typically represent two different things. I don't really have a problem with someone saying, "I picked up a copy of [insert name of game here] today, and it is minty." I do have a problem with someone selling a game as "mint" without it still being in the box with no damage/crushing, and in appropriate wrapping.
I agree with a good deal of your analysis of "rare," but at what quantity of availability do we deem the line for rare? Under a 1000 produced, under 100, under 10, or do we look at production number in terms of similar items produced? For instance, with pinball, there are several games with production numbers under 500, which to some, signifies rare, but if only 3,000 machines are produced worldwide, and taken into account that routed machines were often thrown away when they got old, and that probably less than 50% of those produced are still around today and of those maybe an additional 15-20% are hidden away in storage, doesn't that now make an even higher production of machines rare? Again, I completely agree that the term "rare" is way, WAYYYYYYYYYYY overused, especially on places like Craigslist, but I think that a great deal of these sellers are more ignorant to actual value, don't know how to use the Interwebz, and are just stubborn, as opposed to dishonest. To me, "rare" is a state of mind and can only be defined by what seems rare to you. Since you cannot draw a line and say specifically that everything below this mark is "rare," one can only define it personally.
And as a side note, "You kids stay off my damn grass!"
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Love it Bil!!
In the store I hear both of those words on a daily basis. Rare usually being applied to things like Conker's Bad Fur day (funnily enough being developed by Rare), Pokemon, Final Fantasy and the like. I usually let those ones slide.
When I get people calling the store for quotes I honestly think that most people don't understand what mint means and they just think it means "good enough" now. For example I often get calls like this:
Customer - "Hey, how much do you give for a dead mint PS3 controller?" Me - "Nice! So it's still in the package?" Customer - "We'll no we played it a bunch, but other than the dent from when my brother dropped it and the sticky X button and the left analog drifts a bit it's perfect!!"
They describe the defects with such a positive attitude that I truly believe they just don't get the meaning of the word mint. And at least up here a lot of the online ads read something like "mint condition, light scratches". I don't think most are trying to be dishonest, just misinformed.
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@Crabby & Bill Speaking of things of questionable quality...
http://www.gamestop.com/retro-classics
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i've been an abuser of the word mint before, for me i often use it for lack of a better term. i find it hard to talk about a complete NES cart collection with no better words than "acceptable" to describe it, or maybe "good" for a CIB set.
as for rarity, it's extremely difficult to research the true rarity, as in number of copies made, for most games. where do people actually find these numbers? the best the average person has to determine rarity is "how often does it come up for sale?" imo.
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Hats off to you, Bil. I think this is what a lot of people are quietly thinking as they sift through the ebay and Craigslist nonsense and silently raging at the hundreds of bearing the descriptor "Rare" for whatever reason. However, despite my enjoying the literal usage of the word I believe there are times when an item being "Rare" is entirely subjective. Once upon a time I sold a CD music sampler that was handed out to the people who pre-ordered Castlevania - SOTN at Funco Land. There were literally tens of thousands of these things floating around in the ether, but for some reason not a single one was on ebay. Because of this I felt confident selling it as "Rare" and apparently there were a number of people who agreed, as I was able to auction it for well over $50, based on the fact that it was rare (but only on ebay).
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It's a longbox. You don't see them any more. It's Rare. Oh wait, that's the game company.
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@Addicted: Nothing under $6.99 for NES.
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@shaggy: Lol, I see what you did there. I mean what I did. I mean... Oh, now I'm confused.
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I have plenty of Rare games. Battletoads, Who Framed Roger Rabbit?, R.C. Pro-Am, Ironsword, their port of the peerless Silent Service. This list goes on. As for Mint games, well, I have Twinbee...
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RARE L@@K
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@Addicted: I saw that and was not surprised that most of the games were severely overpriced. I expected that, though. I hope Gamestop dies.
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I absolutely love buying imports from Japanese sellers. They rarely give out "A" grades, but if they say it's a "B" that means the game is probably in better condition than 90% of my collection. The games also ship in 3-5 days, which is usually about half time it takes a domestic seller just to drop by the post office.
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@OatBob: And they send you candy and trading cards!!!!
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@Shaggy: It's an entirely different market than what they are used to. It will be interesting to see how long they stay in.
@Shadow: I hope that it doesn't raise the price further for an already overinflated market.
@Bill: Speaking of false rarity there was a feature on the CUP (Ian & Pat) podcast talking where a person bought all the copies of Rampart for the Gameboy they could find for a year as a test of market inflation/false rarity. They were able to raise the price of Rampart to over $20.00 and make it rare. Take a look at the chart:
http://videogames.pricecharting.com/game/gameboy/rampart
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKHk5U8tmfw
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@Addicted: Yeah, I saw that episode. It was a social experiment to see if it would work and it did. He's going to try and sell the carts cheap to get the price back down, but what's going to happen is that people will buy his cheap copies and resell them for the $20+ price. *facepalm*
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@OatBob: I was discussing this with a native Korean, and he said that they use the same grading system. Most Koreans wouldn't even touch what we consider "used" here in the US, since condition would be deplorable.
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Very good article! I liken it to the whole Radiant Silvergun business. It did come toward the end of the Saturn's lifespan in Japan, but it did (from everything I've read) get a normal print run, so it is in NO WAY rare. And yet, day in and day out, there are eBay listings purporting just that. Despite the wealth of information available now, just because demand is there for the game, sellers continue to claim it as a rare Japanese game, when in fact, it's not. In any event, I'm glad I'm not the only one saying this. Rare doesn't equal good, nor should it equal price hike just because it's rare. If it's not a good game, and is not in demand, it shouldn't cost an arm and a leg. From the opposite side of the spectrum, games that are highly sought after or are always in demand shouldn't be tagged as rare just to generate interest, because it's painfully obvious that it's not rare when nearly every day on eBay there are multiple listings.
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You mean to tell me that my long box Twisted Metal with scratches on the peeling art is NOT mint condition? Who made you the authority?
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@SirPsycho: Don't question the BGA (Bill Grading Authority).
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Hmmm... the Bil-O-Meter game grading system...
BRB
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I see this type of thing all the time. Someone finds a box in their garage that was their kid's, or a re-seller snags an item from an estate sale having never seen one before. It must be rare. By that rationale, and judging by the overall inability to spell & lack of general knowledge, the Encyclopedia Britannica might be considered extremely rare to much of the younger generation. After almost 250 years of existence, it isn't. Africa is not a country, dihydrogen monoxide is water, and eggs are not a diary food.
Also, so many seem to have this mentality that if it is old, it must be rare. Yup, everyone else everywhere (except the source of your copy) threw theirs away. The Game Boy, after over 100 Million units sold, is not rare or hard to find. A Gizmondo with a working battery sure as heck is! This also leads to what I see often as conditional descriptions, using the 'relative to age' grading structure. "Compared to other copies from 30 years ago, this must be MINT!" I don't see eBay or Beckett expanding a CONSIDERING AGE designation, but sellers tend to think this way.
Recent local RARE Craiglist notables: A rare find. A complete Nintendo Gamecube Platinum system complete with everything Pikachu 3dsXl- Super rare pikachu 3ds with lots of games. Rare Vinyl LP "The New Sound of the Osmond Brothers" - OKAY THIS MIGHT BE RARE, BECAUSE EVERYONE ELSE THREW THEIRS AWAY.
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Start heading to those silent auctions at your local School Bill:
http://i.imgur.com/pQ0RrYo.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Jx0bi1b.jpg
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I just wanted to clarify that the pics posted above aren't mine.
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This is wildbil52's Blog. View Profile | RSS |
Like many of the people who visit this site, I am a lifelong gamer who loves and appreciates classic gaming as well as the current generation. When I started collecting games, I realized that some of the stories of my collecting might be interesting, educational, or just plain funny. The stories that I share here are meant to entertain as well as inform and they are all 100% true, which is why I include pictures.
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