The Gasoline Thread

[NES_Rules]

Warning! A little rant about gasoline prices.
Why is the average American consumer so damn stupid? Just a few short weeks ago, the national gas price average was over $4/gallon and everyone was saying how we should have learned our lesson in the 1970's and started being more efficient back then. For a short while, people quit buying the huge SUVs and trucks and started buying smaller, more reasonable cars.
Now, gas prices have started to drop to around $3.50 (here at least) and truck and SUV sales are on the rise again. WTF? Are we really that stupid? Did we seriously forget what $4 gas was like?
That is all.

Or the rise is truck and SUV sales just might be attributed to the dealers cutting prices to very, very low levels.  The Ford dealerships around here are offering $12,000 rebates on trucks that would have been ~$24,000-$28,000 sticker.  Others are advertising 40% off the sticker price on new trucks. 

$12,000 off of the truck means you can absorb the price increase of $3.50 to $4.00 for 288,000 miles assuming horrendous mileage of 12 MPG over the life of the vehicle.  I wouldn't blame the consumer for recognizing a deal when it exists.  If you are looking for someone to blame, you might want to look at the truck manufacturers, which aren't just American companies.  Toyota and Nissan are doing these same things. 

I understand what you're saying and there probably were/are a lot of people who didn't buy trucks and SUVs for the economic reasons. But, I was referring more to the people who suddenly became environmentalists or wanted to get away from foreign oil when the prices went up.

In my opinion, unless you're a plumber or something like that or have a family of 5+, you shouldn't be allowed to buy such fuel-eating monsters.

It pisses me off every time I see "Ty" of "Extreme Makeover: Home Edition" give away a Ford Explorer EL. "EL stands for extended length! It's an even bigger car!!!! Fuck the environment" Asshole

I agree with that. If there was a reasonable way to check to see why people "need" these huge SUVs and trucks, anyone who really doesn't need one but drives it anyway, should automatically have to pay twice the price for gas.

Now, I drive a truck and I love driving a truck and it's all I'll probably ever drive. But, I do occasionally haul firewood, stone, mulch and stuff like that. But I also drive an S-10 with a 2.2L 4 cylinder because I know that is all the truck I need 95% of the time. It gets around 22 mpg, which isn't spectacular, but not bad either. I could even put in E85 if I could find a place that sells it.

[Hydrobond]

And you can pry my full sized V-8 sedan from my hands over my dead body.
At least the next one will have cylinder deactivation so that it acts as a 4-cylinder most of the time. 

[The Metamorphosing Leon]

FUCK THE ENVIRONMENT

Got gas for 3.40 with Kroger discount.

[logical123]

Nah, I think I like living on a habitable planet with a breathable atmosphere, thank you very much.

[The Metamorphosing Leon]

The only way the atmosphere would ever become un-breathable would involve the U.S., Russia, and China, going all out with nukes whilst SIMULTANEOUSLY every volcano in the world went off. Even then everything would probably be right as rain in a good five hundred years, albeit with a lot less humans running around. If, IF we polluted enough to cause the temperature to rise slowly it would lead to an excess of fresh water in the oceans which would shut down thermohaline circulation and cause an ice age in the Northern Hemisphere. The influx of ice would absorb all of our awful pollution and kill or misplace a good many of us but NOT make the atmosphere go kaput, it would make it cleaner than ever.

The Earth is an amazing thing full of cycles that take longer than humans will ever know, or exist. Our planet has checks and balances and it will take a little more than neighbor Jimmy-Bob's Monster Truck to take it down.

Environmental things to worry about are shortages: water shortages, fuel shortages (which really comes down to politics), and the God damn rainforest soil which is being leeched by crappy farmers who don't cycle their crops and will eventually lead to food shortages in South America.

[NES_Rules]

The only way the atmosphere would ever become un-breathable would involve the U.S., Russia, and China, going all out with nukes whilst SIMULTANEOUSLY every volcano in the world went off. Even then everything would probably be right as rain in a good five hundred years, albeit with a lot less humans running around. If, IF we polluted enough to cause the temperature to rise slowly it would lead to an excess of fresh water in the oceans which would shut down thermohaline circulation and cause an ice age in the Northern Hemisphere. The influx of ice would absorb all of our awful pollution and kill or misplace a good many of us but NOT make the atmosphere go kaput, it would make it cleaner than ever.

The Earth is an amazing thing full of cycles that take longer than humans will ever know, or exist. Our planet has checks and balances and it will take a little more than neighbor Jimmy-Bob's Monster Truck to take it down.

Environmental things to worry about are shortages: water shortages, fuel shortages (which really comes down to politics), and the God damn rainforest soil which is being leeched by crappy farmers who don't cycle their crops and will eventually lead to food shortages in South America.

Yes, the Earth will always be able to fix itself. The only question will be whether humans will be able to survive the cycles.

[The Metamorphosing Leon]

Not without a total collapse and rebuilding of civilization, and in many scenarios not at all.

[Hydrobond]

This is why we need to start populating our mine shafts...
[img width=400 height=300]http://gardnerlinn.com/strangelove.jpg[/img]

[logical123]

The only way the atmosphere would ever become un-breathable would involve the U.S., Russia, and China, going all out with nukes whilst SIMULTANEOUSLY every volcano in the world went off. Even then everything would probably be right as rain in a good five hundred years, albeit with a lot less humans running around. If, IF we polluted enough to cause the temperature to rise slowly it would lead to an excess of fresh water in the oceans which would shut down thermohaline circulation and cause an ice age in the Northern Hemisphere. The influx of ice would absorb all of our awful pollution and kill or misplace a good many of us but NOT make the atmosphere go kaput, it would make it cleaner than ever.

The Earth is an amazing thing full of cycles that take longer than humans will ever know, or exist. Our planet has checks and balances and it will take a little more than neighbor Jimmy-Bob's Monster Truck to take it down.

Environmental things to worry about are shortages: water shortages, fuel shortages (which really comes down to politics), and the God damn rainforest soil which is being leeched by crappy farmers who don't cycle their crops and will eventually lead to food shortages in South America.

Yes, the Earth will always be able to fix itself. The only question will be whether humans will be able to survive the cycles.

That is what I was trying to say. In other words, nicely put both of you.

[Sirgin]

Not without a total collapse and rebuilding of civilization, and in many scenarios not at all.

Then shouldn't we make an effort in trying to maximise our stay on this planet?

[The Metamorphosing Leon]

Not without a total collapse and rebuilding of civilization, and in many scenarios not at all.

Then shouldn't we make an effort in trying to maximise our stay on this planet?

First of all, aside from the aforementioned nuclear holocaust/volcano holocaust, there is very little evidence that shows us destroying the planet at any rate that will make it unlivable for mankind. This fact, of course, is one of hot debate and I try not to argue it any more. I have read my facts, I have taken several geological courses and the resounding answer to the problem is: we have no idea and will have to wait and see. The thing is, we will have to wait thousands of years to see.

This, along with the fact that--for all the conserving and preservation of the planet that we pour our resources into--there could be a comet or asteroid out there with Earth's name on it, leads me to not give a damn about things and enjoy what's what while I'm here.

There are many other factors as well, and these may be the shallowest...but hell, I'm going to go play a videogame.

[phoenix1967]

 ...um...$3.68 at Costco in Farmington Hills, MI.

It would be interesting to see if we survive the next ice age. We should, given that technology will be more advanced by then. Maybe to the point that we've developed interstellar travel and could find another planet to inhabit. But we're talking thousands of years.

[Sirgin]

This, along with the fact that--for all the conserving and preservation of the planet that we pour our resources into--there could be a comet or asteroid out there with Earth's name on it, leads me to not give a damn about things and enjoy what's what while I'm here.

You do have a point there.

[Sirgin]

It would be interesting to see if we survive the next ice age. We should, given that technology will be more advanced by then. Maybe to the point that we've developed interstellar travel and could find another planet to inhabit. But we're talking thousands of years.

We survived Ice Ages of the past so I don't see why we couldn't survive future ones.

Please not that an ice age isn't as dramatic as it sounds, the temperature drops maybe 10°C on average and around the equator you still get a nice 25°C / 77°F

[Hydrobond]

It would be interesting to see if we survive the next ice age. We should, given that technology will be more advanced by then. Maybe to the point that we've developed interstellar travel and could find another planet to inhabit. But we're talking thousands of years.

We survived Ice Ages of the past so I don't see why we couldn't survive future ones.

Please not that an ice age isn't as dramatic as it sounds, the temperature drops maybe 10°C on average and around the equator you still get a nice 25°C / 77°F

Also, when we survived the last ice age, there no where near as many of us.  Humanity will survive, but the population will need to shrink significantly.