Separation of Church and State

[sinning.dragon]

Ok. Politics are a necessary evil for me. Usually all politicians do is piss me off and then I start throwing a tantrum over how most of them should be kicked real good and hard in the groin. Like today! I got this campaign ad in the mail from Dave Seabrook, who happens to be running for senate over here. Nothing really caught my eye about the ad until I flipped it over and saw this list of.. labels? Stations in life that happen to apply to him? It was basically like this:

• HUSBAND
  
• FATHER
  
• COACH
  
• CHURCH MEMBER
  
• COMMUNITY VOLUNTEER
  
• FIREFIGHTER
  

While it isn't like he's saying "I'm going to turn our state government into a religious fest" it still bothers me. Instead he is saying "I'm religious! You can count on me to be a good senator because I am not a heathen!"

Or am I just pissed off for mostly no good reason?

[Lord Nepenthean]

I see what you're saying, and for me I'm more likely to vote for somebody if they don't make too big of a deal of their religion.  However, LOTS of voters do care, so it is good campaign strategy to let everyone know that you're (by you I mean politicians) religious.  Think it's a coincidence that every President has been Christian, and only one of those was Catholic?  Of course not.  Yes, it's kind of stupid, but you also have to remember that the original reason for "separation of church and state" was to protect the church from government - not the other way around.

[Izret101]

:ninja:I am staying away from a POLITICAL/RELIGIOUS topic. As i am very out spoken on both and it can get us all in trouble again.

[The Metamorphosing Leon]

I think you should find something that matters to be pissed at. Who cares if the guy goes to church? I don't think thats anything to feel threatened by.

[Izret101]

I don't think that is the point. I think it becomes an issue when the church tries to tell the general public what is right for them and what they should and should not do. The church should have njo say whatso ever in what happens politically anywhere. But our own government does not follow its own laws. That is why when i prez is sworn in he puts his hand on the bible, that is why we are one nation under god. None of this bothers me in the least i just think it is hippocrasy.
But since  i also like arguining for both sides.
So i can say that our government was founded on christian beliefs system.

[The Metamorphosing Leon]

The Church has no power. The Church is dead, it's been divided into hundreds of factions that don't agree with each other. If any Catholics read this, sorry, but the Pope has no power over the masses anymore. If He called for a crusade to the holy lands I think about ten old Italian lady's would go. You could probably find an instance somewhere, but I can't think of any politicians that have tried to convert masses of people or done anything lately in the name of God or the Church. If he did he'd be lynched by angry hippies in a week. As far as the hand on the bible and stuff, thats bassically habit thats been written into law.

[Lord Nepenthean]

The Church has no power. The Church is dead, it's been divided into hundreds of factions that don't agree with each other. If any Catholics read this, sorry, but the Pope has no power over the masses anymore.

This may be the case in much of America, but it is most definitely NOT the case in South America and many other parts of the world.

[The Metamorphosing Leon]

Still, the church is outdated in the ruling sense. It used to rule because along with being blessed, the clergy were for the most part the only people educated, even among the royalty (the Pope was the smartest of course.) So what the church said was for the most part trusted by the royalty and thought to be genuis among the masses. If not listened to at first the pope could say God told him "blablabla" and if Gods will wasn't obeyed then he would excomunicate the guilty person/party.
If it hadn't been for the French stealing the papacy and the English becoming protestants we might all be illiterate peasants under the Pope.

[danvx6]

i will simply say that all governments are corrupt asswipes. i won't say much about church becaue i will probably make an ass of myself by saying something untrue or offending someone, i don't know the first thing about religion,  except that throughout history churches have been corrupt. some still are to an extent.

[sinning.dragon]

I think you should find something that matters to be pissed at. Who cares if the guy goes to church? I don't think thats anything to feel threatened by.

I don't think that is the point. I think it becomes an issue when the church tries to tell the general public what is right for them and what they should and should not do. The church should have njo say whatso ever in what happens politically anywhere. But our own government does not follow its own laws. That is why when i prez is sworn in he puts his hand on the bible, that is why we are one nation under god. None of this bothers me in the least i just think it is hippocrasy.
But since  i also like arguining for both sides.
So i can say that our government was founded on christian beliefs system.

Exactly. It doesn't bother me that he goes to church, I happen to have a deep faith in the Lord (and Lady). What bothers me is that he feels the need to throw it in. Nep made a good point on why he may or may not be throwing it in, and I can accept that kind of thing. Still, it just bothers me that he is trying to sell himself to me through his religion.

[Hydrobond]

Nep got it right. The only reason that his religion enters into his campaign is to get the voters that care about that issue.  If you dont agree with what he did, and can vote, do not vote for him.  That is how our gov't works. Oh, and a democracy is just the oppression of the 49% by the 51%.  

[Arrrhalomynn]

I can't think of any politicians that have tried to convert masses of people or done anything lately in the name of God or the Church.

http://www.usatoday.com/n...03-04-01-bush-cover_x.htm

Bush believes he was called by God to lead the nation at this time

http://www.haaretz.com/ha...ontrassID=0&listSrc=Y

God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam

If you believe you're chosen by God, then everything you do is pretty much in his name. And that wouldn't be a problem, but it's sad that gullible people (of whom there are a lot) see the things he does as 'God's will'.  No matter how much bad things he does.
And constantly mentioning how awesome God supposedly is is pretty close to converting the masses.

It makes me sad that people vote for certain parties/people because they're religious. It's often a good excuse for people not to think about what they're voting for. 'oh, I'm protestant and that party/person is protestant too, I'm going to vote them/him! I'm not exactly sure what he or his opponents stand for, but he goes to church so it has to be good!'.

[Izret101]

OH MY F"ING SWEET JESUS!!!.
Did you actually say the Curch is dead and has no power?!!?!?!?
If that were true why is the Pope one of the most "influental leaders" in the wolrd?
Why did Vatican City become its own Country within the last 100 year,probably less?
Why do many world leaders go to meet with the Pope and many times ask for his advice?

[The Metamorphosing Leon]

hydro hit the mark, well on the first sentence. It's all about the few radical christian votes, but for us normals to not look at his other issues and vote against the guy because he say's he goes to church then we're not much better than the radicals.
As far as my "The Church is dead" stuff, it's dead and outdated in the ruling sense. Sorry to those I angered. To IZ I say, the pope does meet with leaders and give advice, but I doubt it's followed. If it was the world would probably be better off. But most leaders seem not to want that.