PCE-CD Japanese Game Database is messed up

[Tynstar]

If you three (blissfulnoise, Funk_Bubby and Dreamcaster) want to talk it out and figure out what to do just let me know and I can change whatever. If I need to add ot remove a section or just games let me know.

[blissfulnoise]

i agree with you that the super cd-rom2 is different then the duo. but to list them under the same title of turbo duo makes sense to me. here is my reason. the super cd-rom2 is an equalivient to a turboduo game in my book. either way you need a super system card unless you have a duo then its built in. its like famicom/nes, same system different regional name. am i on the right track here with what your saying.

Kind of.  The Duo is just a product name, it's not synonomous with anything.  You can play Super CD-ROM2's with a regular PC Engine Super CD-ROM2 and a System Card.  I understand what you're saying about American "Duo" releases though.  NEC never really explained to American audiences what was going on so as far as most American's know, the Duo is a different system.  But keep in mind it was called a "Duo" in Japan too.  It's much more similiar to what Sega was going to do with the Neptune.  You have 32X games, Sega CD games, and Sega Genesis games.  The Neptune was going to play all three but each system was it's own format.

I'd go with what Funk_Buddy is putting forward.  Making a PC Engine / TurboGrafx-16 Hu-Card table and a PC Engine / TurboGrafx-16 CD-ROM2 table.  Then adding CD-ROM2, Super CD-ROM2, and Arcade CD-ROM2 as media types.  That would make the most sense and be easiest on the DB admins.

[Tynstar]

OK these are the section in the database now.

NEC PC Engine / TurboGrafx-16
NEC PC Engine CD / TurboGrafx CD
NEC PC-FX
NEC SuperGrafx
NEC Turbo Duo

What needs to be done with each section? Combine what? Then delete what section? Rename to something new? Let me know here in this post. If a section does need to be removed please do me a favor and remove the games from your collection. It will make the back end work a lot easier since I won't have to add games to peoples collections.

[blissfulnoise]

NEC PC-FX and NEC SuperGrafx are different systems, so they'll need to stay.  Leave NEC PC Engine / Turbografx-16 for the Hu-Card media.

I'd recommend that we combine NEC Turbo Duo and PC Engine CD / TurboGrafx CD and rename to PC Engine / TurboGrafx-16 CD-ROM2.

Add Arcade CD-ROM2, Super CD-ROM2, and CD-ROM2 to the media types list.

[TurboGrafxer AKA DCer]

NEC PC-FX and NEC SuperGrafx are different systems, so they'll need to stay.  Leave NEC PC Engine / Turbografx-16 for the Hu-Card media.

I'd recommend that we combine NEC Turbo Duo and PC Engine CD / TurboGrafx CD and rename to PC Engine / TurboGrafx-16 CD-ROM2.

Add Arcade CD-ROM2, Super CD-ROM2, and CD-ROM2 to the media types list.

here is what i think it should look like:

NEC PC Engine / TurboGrafx-16
NEC PC Engine CD-Rom2 / TurboGrafx CD
NEC PC-FX
NEC Super CD-Rom2/TurboDuo
NEC SuperGrafx


this makes the most sense. as with breaking down the media types.... why? they are all cd-roms inb one way or another. thats like breaking down the cartridges to size on the media list. it just makes no sense.

[blissfulnoise]

What about Arcade CD-ROM2s?  What about the PC Engine Duo?

Comparing them to cartridge size isn't valid.  A 8-MegaBit and a 16-MegaBit cartridge will all play on the same Genesis.  A Super CD-ROM2 won't play on your TurboGrafx-16 without the right system card.  Take for example computer diskettes.  There are media categories for 3.5" disks and 5.25" disks.  They're both disks, but they each require their own disk drive to run.  They're all computer games, just a different type of media format.  The exact same thing applies to the TurboGrafx-16.

To give you another example, look at the Video-CD adapter on the CDi.  There are lots of games on the CDi that REQUIRE that adapter, but there isn't a seperate console listing for it.  They're all CDi games.  The info in the database just assumes you'll need the Video-CD adapter to play them.

You can play CD-ROM2s, Super CD-ROM2s, and Arcade CD-ROM2s on your regular old TurboGrafx-CD if you had the right card.  The Duo isn't exclusive in any way shape or form.  Again, there are no "Duo" games.  It's just a marketing gimmick for an (admittedly) too complex media system that NEC didn't want to bother to explain to customers in the US.  And to make things MORE complicated, you actually CAN get a CD-ROM2 attachment for your SuperGrafx and play any of the CD-ROM2 games on there.  The TurboDuo is NOT a console that has it's own type of games that only it can play like every other system in the table list.  There are no games that will only, exclusively, play on a PC Engine Duo or a TurboDuo.

You have two options here.  You can list out each media type as it's own console category.  I'd support that as being a valid, but not the best, option.  That means:

NEC PC Engine / TurboGrafx-16 (Hu-Cards Only)
NEC PC Engine CD-ROM2 / TurboGrafx-CD
NEC PC Engine Super CD-ROM2 / TurboDuo
NEC PC Engine Arcade CD-ROM2

Or you can just make a single CD-ROM2 category and put the format in the media type list and be done with it.  It really is the best option.

[TurboGrafxer AKA DCer]

NEC PC Engine / TurboGrafx-16
NEC PC Engine CD-Rom2 / TurboGrafx CD
NEC PC-FX
NEC Super CD-Rom2/TurboDuo
NEC SuperGrafx

and

NEC PC Engine / TurboGrafx-16 (Hu-Cards Only)
NEC PC Engine CD-ROM2 / TurboGrafx-CD
NEC PC Engine Super CD-ROM2 / TurboDuo
NEC PC Engine Arcade CD-ROM2

are basicly the same all you did was add the arcade cd-rom2 (which i forgot about at the time of posting. but you also forgot to add to the list supergrafx and pc-fx. so then the database should be titled:

NEC PC Engine / TurboGrafx-16
NEC PC Engine CD-ROM2 / TurboGrafx-CD
NEC PC Engine Super CD-ROM2 / TurboDuo
NEC PC Engine Arcade CD-ROM2
NEC PC-FX
NEC SuperGrafx

NEC PC Engine / TurboGrafx-16 was only hucards anyways so putting (hucards only) is pointless.

is this agreed upon?

[blissfulnoise]

PC-FX and SuperGrafx don't have anything to do with the conversation, that's why I left them out.  Also, the parenthesis was there for clarification, not for literal use.  Finally, I added that list as an alternate option, I don't think you read any of my post saying why it's a bad idea.

So, no I don't agree with it.  I think it needs to be a media type.  You've presented no good reason for adding each as it's own console other than you think it should be that way.  I'll change my opinion if you can give me a compelling reason to do so.  There are numerous examples already in the database that would justify adding the CD-ROM2 type as a media list and not to set up each format as it's own console: CDi (CDs, VCDs, iVCDs), PC (3.5" disk, 5.25" disk, CD-ROM), MSX (cart, CD-ROM), Commodore 64 (tape, cart, disk), Sega Master System (cart, card).  Additionally, it is far more beneficial to list all the CD-ROM2 based games in a single location than to spread it out over three different tables for research purposes.

I've said my peace on the subject and hopefully I've educated some people on the PC Engine.  Unless you've got some justification otherwise, my vote goes squarely under the "media type" option.  I'll leave it up to the admins to decide how they want to make the change.

[TurboGrafxer AKA DCer]

i did read all of your posts. seperating them by systems is the easiest way. placing both super cd-rom2 and cd-rom2 games under the same catagory basicly says its the same system. and its not. beyond the point that you could play super cd-rom2 games on the duo and on the tg-cd with the right system card. if you had a tg-cd and no system card for duo games would make them unplayable. the tg-cd came with the 2.0 card as a hucard and the duo has the 3.0 card built in. the tg-cd basicly had their software seperate from the system. this is like saying lets put all the playstation games together. we can play ps2 and ps1 games on the ps3, we can just divide them in the media section. or like saying lets put all the gameboy games together and divide them by media type cause they are all playable on the ds. what if someone has a tg-cd/cd-rom2 system but no system card 3.0 or a duo? they cant play the super cd-rom2 games BECAUSE THEY NEED SOMETHING ELSE (a 3.0 card) TO PLAY THEM. making it seperate system wise. the 3.0 card is the same as a duo. all the 3.0 card does is make your tg-cd/cd-rom2 system a duo. that is my reason.

[Tan]

Dispite my lack of expert knowledge on these systems I do have a couple of points for you guys to consider.

The staff had recently re-done the media types list after careful consideration because the list was very long and needlessly divided. Go into too much detail and we'll have to start adding media types like the blue cd-rom versus silver cd-rom PS2 games, DVD6 versus DVD9 Xbox games etc etc until the dropdown list is 40 miles long. There are sections under each game like Overview, Game Trivia etc where any special hardware requirements can be listed without compromising the simplicity of the media type list.

Each hardware section in the database should in theory contain it's own unique, retail hardware unless part of a series. We've recently merged all of the Atari 8-bit Family systems under one heading for this reason although not neccessarily all of the games in that category will work on every system, much like how not every PC game will run on WinXP. This is done as much for ease of useability for the members as it is to keep the database clean.

So maybe add info to the page under Overview or Trivia like this:

• This game requires the Arcade Card Pro (PC-Engine CD-ROM²/Super CD-ROM²) or the Arcade Card Duo (PC-Engine Duo/R/RX)

If your really concerned about accuracy and nazi detail then let detailed game pages with filled out information speak for themselves. Less work, easier for searching, less intimidating for new members and it can fully explain any special hardware need on a per game basis. That way you can concentrate on sorting out the hardware sections by hardware and not by media type.

[TurboGrafxer AKA DCer]

Dispite my lack of expert knowledge on these systems I do have a couple of points for you guys to consider.

The staff had recently re-done the media types list after careful consideration because the list was very long and needlessly divided. Go into too much detail and we'll have to start adding media types like the blue cd-rom versus silver cd-rom PS2 games, DVD6 versus DVD9 Xbox games etc etc until the dropdown list is 40 miles long. There are sections under each game like Overview, Game Trivia etc where any special hardware requirements can be listed without compromising the simplicity of the media type list.

Each hardware section in the database should in theory contain it's own unique, retail hardware unless part of a series. We've recently merged all of the Atari 8-bit Family systems under one heading for this reason although not neccessarily all of the games in that category will work on every system, much like how not every PC game will run on WinXP. This is done as much for ease of useability for the members as it is to keep the database clean.

So maybe add info to the page under Overview or Trivia like this:

• This game requires the Arcade Card Pro (PC-Engine CD-ROM²/Super CD-ROM²) or the Arcade Card Duo (PC-Engine Duo/R/RX)

If your really concerned about accuracy and nazi detail then let detailed game pages with filled out information speak for themselves. Less work, easier for searching, less intimidating for new members and it can fully explain any special hardware need on a per game basis. That way you can concentrate on sorting out the hardware sections by hardware and not by media type.

tan, thanks for puting what i was trying to say in better words. only part i disagree with is puting the info in trivia/overview. dividing it by its unique system is best and you stated it well. even though a tg-cd game plays on the duo the duo is unique for the super cd-rom2 games. so a simple system list modification and the switching of a few games is the way to go.

NEC PC Engine / TurboGrafx-16
NEC PC Engine CD-ROM2 / TurboGrafx-CD
NEC PC Engine Super CD-ROM2 / TurboDuo
NEC PC Engine Arcade CD-ROM2
NEC PC-FX
NEC SuperGrafx

thats my vote.

[Tynstar]

My head hurts

[Funk_Buddy]

Mine too.

I'm going to have a look around the net and see how others have the games listed.

[TurboGrafxer AKA DCer]

Mine too.

I'm going to have a look around the net and see how others have the games listed.

sounds like a reasonable solution.

[udisi]

I'm gonna chime in here and say I prefer this set-up

NEC PC Engine / TurboGrafx-16
NEC PC Engine CD-ROM2 / TurboGrafx-CD
NEC PC Engine Super CD-ROM2 / TurboDuo(or call this Turbografx Super CD-ROM )
NEC PC Engine Arcade CD-ROM2
NEC PC-FX
NEC SuperGrafx

I think it's important to point of the difference from US TG-CD and US Super CD-ROM2 games because of the requirement to have  the extra system card or a turbo duo to play Super CD-ROM2 games. Also the first TG-CD games were all released in like packaging(IE the outer box like the HU-cards) and by NEC.
The only exceptions are Vasteel (working designs special packaging) and Buster Bros(which was released after the TTI change) All US Super CD-ROM2 games were release in just the standard cd jewel and almost all were released under the TTI trademark with a standard "DUO" packaging.There are a couple of exceptions again, but none of these came with outer boxes. The packaging along with the need for the card or duo further make these games feel like seperate systems very much like the genesis and 32x.

Just my opinon, but if you group TG-CD and Turbo Duo games together it leads only to confuse people more than NEC and TTI did when they originally released these formats. These are different formats, it's not like just a blue back PS2 game or a silver back PS2 game. These required an add-on ( the system 3.0 card) or the Turbo Duo.