Global Warming :P

[The Metamorphosing Leon]

I didn't even think this was much of an issue anymore but then I heard some idiots talking at school about this new Al Gore thing.

I haven't watched Al Gore's thing and I won't because that's gross and he's a fat loser, but in case anyone did, I, being a freshman in college who apparently knows more about the earth than all these nutjob scientists, will show you the alternative to "global warming"

[img width=240 height=353]http://www.the-cosmic-forces.net/img_koenigsberg/ice_age1.jpg[/img]

That's right, furry talking animals living in a freezing world of ice and un-inhabitable tundra. Our world is currently in a stage between ice ages. This is good, otherwise my house would be under a few hundred feet of ice and I'd probably be grunting about how fat Al Gore is somewhere far to the south of where I now sit. Since the ice age ended, about 20,000 years before we started burning fossil fuels, the temperature has risen and so have the oceans. At some point, which could be a few thousand years from now, or could be tomorrow, this process will reverse and it will start getting cold again and then Al Gore will start telling us to burn as much fuel as possible to make it start getting warm again. But it won't matter because the amount of pollution we humans have ever put into the air doesn't amount to what the earth puts into the air, through smoking volcanoes and the like, on an annual basis. To think that we started this warming process, and that it has gotten to a critical point, in a few hundred years is absolutely insane. It has taken thousands of years for the temperatures to rise to where they now are, and I find them pretty comfortable.

What proof do I have to all this? What sources can I cite?

None. These are just random facts I learned while most kids were in school and that I've since been storing in my head. But it all makes sense to me, we humans are nothing (with the possible exception of Al Gore's girth), we shouldn't flatter ourselves with the belief that we are causing the perfectly natural warming of our earth. The earth does things, it moves continents, we all know that, when was the last time you moved a continent?

[Hydrobond]

I want to know what Al Gore proposes we do about Matrian Warming. 
http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=17977


edit: Damn, I think I qualify as "retarded nutjob" by your liberal definition.

[The Metamorphosing Leon]

Only if you ARE a retard nutjob. I didn't say anyone who responds to this is a retard nutjob I said I hope the retard nutjobs, who think they are causing global warming because they never learned how the earth worked, respond to this...

Fine I'll edit it.

[Tan]

Leon, your youth and ignorance never cease to amaze me. 

[The Metamorphosing Leon]

Tan, prove me wrong.

[Tan]

Do some reading, do some research. Read some statistics. While your government has been dragging their feet in this issue, the rest of the world has been teaching it's kids and taking steps for the last 20 years. Mind you most of those steps aren't nearly enough or fast enough but it's a start. Look up acid rain, global dimming, greenhouse gases, ozone depletion, ice shelves breaking apart the size of small countries, 2.5 degree climate shift in 50 years alone which would take the earth thousands to do naturally.

Sure the Earth has a hand in all of this, but mass industrialization and use of fossil fuels combined with a quadripling of the world's population while systematically reducing the very forests and natural CO2 scrubbers needed to maintain the balance. Thousands of years for the Earth to do that, we've managed in 50-100 years. More vehicles than humans, more smoke stacks for factories than trees, 4 times the amount of people exhaling CO2 and fewer trees to filter it.

I don't blame you for being skeptical. Many people are. I also know that your government has been denying these reports for years, which will affect what is taught in schools and discussed in thinktanks.

How many Americans know that there's been a hole in the Ozone layer caused by our use of CFC's and other chemicals that's been over the Arctic circle for 20 years? Why do you think skin cancer and other UV ray side effects are worse now than they've ever been?

Here's a great site to read over. Plenty of statistics, hard numbers and comparisons. I won't try to argue with you or sway your opinion. You've shown yours and I respect that's how you see it, and I've just posted how I see mine. You can choose to dismiss the evidence before you if you wish, that's your perogative. But if your wrong it spells doom to ignore it, if i'm wrong then we were just over cautious. Would you take that chance either way?

http://www.ecobridge.org/.../g_evd.htm#Disintegration

[The Metamorphosing Leon]

Excellent, a counter argument, what I always find when I get into these discussions is that the person I'm arguing with starts attacking the way I'm arguing and never the thing I'm arguing.

P.S. I'll respond when there is time.

[Hydrobond]

Do some reading, do some research. Read some statistics. While your government has been dragging their feet in this issue, the rest of the world has been teaching it's kids and taking steps for the last 20 years. Mind you most of those steps aren't nearly enough or fast enough but it's a start. Look up acid rain, global dimming, greenhouse gases, ozone depletion, ice shelves breaking apart the size of small countries, 2.5 degree climate shift in 50 years alone which would take the earth thousands to do naturally.

If you are truely concerned with pollution then you should care more about China and India than the United States.  We spend more than any other country on the planet to reduce pollution as much as possible. 

More vehicles than humans, more smoke stacks for factories than trees, 4 times the amount of people exhaling CO2 and fewer trees to filter it.

I would love to see your data on that point.

How many Americans know that there's been a hole in the Ozone layer caused by our use of CFC's and other chemicals that's been over the Arctic circle for 20 years? Why do you think skin cancer and other UV ray side effects are worse now than they've ever been?

Americans watch the news too, we are aware of hole(s) in the ozone layer. 

Cancer rates in general, as well as the rates of other diseases, have gone up for two reasons.  One is that we live longer.  Cancer and other diseases generally present later in life, which means we will see higher rates of occurences when the population lives longer.  Secondly, the diagnostics have improved dramatically.  Doctors are able to determine who has these diseases better now then they could in the past.  And if you look closely, doctors appear to have cured old age; no one dies of old age anymore because doctors are able to determine what disesase did kill them. 




And let us not forget the advantages of global warming....
[img width=473 height=354]http://4.content.collegehumor.com/d1/ch6/5/6/collegehumor.851b5295389fbfd028833ec66211d17b.jpg[/img][img width=473 height=630]http://4.content.collegehumor.com/d1/ch6/0/f/collegehumor.e8651fd0fca5ab5a75f2446fe899415a.jpg[/img]
(Quick and dirty, feel free to add better ones.)

[The Metamorphosing Leon]

Do some reading, do some research. Read some statistics. While your government has been dragging their feet in this issue, the rest of the world has been teaching it's kids and taking steps for the last 20 years. Mind you most of those steps aren't nearly enough or fast enough but it's a start. Look up acid rain, global dimming, greenhouse gases, ozone depletion, ice shelves breaking apart the size of small countries, 2.5 degree climate shift in 50 years alone which would take the earth thousands to do naturally.

If you are truely concerned with pollution then you should care more about China and India than the United States.  We spend more than any other country on the planet to reduce pollution as much as possible. 

More vehicles than humans, more smoke stacks for factories than trees, 4 times the amount of people exhaling CO2 and fewer trees to filter it.

I would love to see your data on that point.

How many Americans know that there's been a hole in the Ozone layer caused by our use of CFC's and other chemicals that's been over the Arctic circle for 20 years? Why do you think skin cancer and other UV ray side effects are worse now than they've ever been?

Americans watch the news too, we are aware of hole(s) in the ozone layer. 

Cancer rates in general, as well as the rates of other diseases, have gone up for two reasons.  One is that we live longer.  Cancer and other diseases generally present later in life, which means we will see higher rates of occurences when the population lives longer.  Secondly, the diagnostics have improved dramatically.  Doctors are able to determine who has these diseases better now then they could in the past.  And if you look closely, doctors appear to have cured old age; no one dies of old age anymore because doctors are able to determine what disesase did kill them. 




And let us not forget the advantages of global warming....
[img width=473 height=354]http://4.content.collegehumor.com/d1/ch6/5/6/collegehumor.851b5295389fbfd028833ec66211d17b.jpg[/img][img width=473 height=630]http://4.content.collegehumor.com/d1/ch6/0/f/collegehumor.e8651fd0fca5ab5a75f2446fe899415a.jpg[/img]
(Quick and dirty, feel free to add better ones.)

Oh fine, steal my glory...

[Tan]

Do some reading, do some research. Read some statistics. While your government has been dragging their feet in this issue, the rest of the world has been teaching it's kids and taking steps for the last 20 years. Mind you most of those steps aren't nearly enough or fast enough but it's a start. Look up acid rain, global dimming, greenhouse gases, ozone depletion, ice shelves breaking apart the size of small countries, 2.5 degree climate shift in 50 years alone which would take the earth thousands to do naturally.

If you are truely concerned with pollution then you should care more about China and India than the United States.  We spend more than any other country on the planet to reduce pollution as much as possible. 

More vehicles than humans, more smoke stacks for factories than trees, 4 times the amount of people exhaling CO2 and fewer trees to filter it.

I would love to see your data on that point.

How many Americans know that there's been a hole in the Ozone layer caused by our use of CFC's and other chemicals that's been over the Arctic circle for 20 years? Why do you think skin cancer and other UV ray side effects are worse now than they've ever been?

Americans watch the news too, we are aware of hole(s) in the ozone layer. 

Cancer rates in general, as well as the rates of other diseases, have gone up for two reasons.  One is that we live longer.  Cancer and other diseases generally present later in life, which means we will see higher rates of occurences when the population lives longer.  Secondly, the diagnostics have improved dramatically.  Doctors are able to determine who has these diseases better now then they could in the past.  And if you look closely, doctors appear to have cured old age; no one dies of old age anymore because doctors are able to determine what disesase did kill them. 

I wasn't attacking the United States's stand on pollution nor anyone else's. An American posted his disbelief so I counter posted about his countrys denial of the problem which has existed for years and is well documented.

"More vehicles than humans, more smoke stacks for factories than trees, 4 times the amount of people exhaling CO2 and fewer trees to filter it."

That's a statement of a figure of speech. How many industrial parks grow while public parks get less funding and get cut down for "progress"? We cut down the rainforest which is one of the major natural CO2 scrubbers. Ironic as that clearing and burning it accounts for 20-25% of CO2 emitted into the atmosphere while an area the size of Florida disappears every year.

Because of the thinning of the Ozone which offers protection from UV rays, skin cancer has risen dramatically. In some cases 2.4% higher each year.

I'm no David Suzuki when it comes to the enviroment, but I know the problem is there and it's getting worse. Am I particularly concerned about the enviroment? No not really. I idle my car, I waste electricity, I recycle only that which get's me a refund. But if a new policy is instituted i follow it, other than that no extra effort on my part.

If you don't think the human race is significant enough to mass such a change think about this. In the last couple of hundred years or so we've accelerated Earth's normal extinction rate of species by 10,000%. The largest mass extinction since the end of the era of dinosaurs somewhere in the vicinity of 9000 species a year, mostly in the rainforests.

[The Metamorphosing Leon]

My country's denial? Most of my country seems to believe Al Gore and his dribble, at least by how our media reports things.

True we have caused the extinction of animals, Beavers, I might add, do the same thing. But we are becoming aware of our destruction of the environment and we are moving to make things as right as we can.

A few things: first of all, as I said above, we humans DO NOT put enough emissions into the atmosphere to make a difference, we annually put way less than 1% of all greenhouse gases into the air, the rest is perfectly natural. Secondly, the warmest period of human history was thousands of years before the industrial revolution. Thirdly, more CO2 is NOT BAD for the environment. There isn't that much Co2, again it is a tiny fraction of...1% of the atmosphere. People growing plants, usually weed, use condensed Co2 to speed up the process.

What is bad for the environment is ice, too much ice reflects solar rays away from earth and causes cooling. Cooling is bad because it makes us freeze to death and makes more ice which makes it colder which makes the earth even less inhabitable. If anything we should be putting more CO2 into the air to keep our plants healthy and to keep us warmer.

The earth warms and cools in cycles and it all has to do with solar powers and the moving of continents.

[Tan]

Your a gifted prodigy of scientific endeavour. Imagine, you've proved false what hundreds of leading scientists from around the world have said for decades. And your only 20!!! Imagine what you'll accomplish in the next 20! We'll be keeping an eye on you sir, the fate of the human race rests in the hands of your generation. I can sure sleep better at night now. 

[The Metamorphosing Leon]

That's it, prove how right I am by attacking me instead of my facts.

I haven't proved anything, I haven't made up anything. I have informed you of what I know. It's common scientific knowledge that I learned reading a few books and listening to a few lectures given from, sometimes quite old, environmental geologists.

People standing in front of cameras are not "leading" scientists. Al Gore is not a "leading" scientist. Al Gore would be unemployed if he wasn't being payed to spout his crap.

It's bullshit, go to the nearest college and find me a real scientist, a scholar who is not paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to say stupid shit to the stupid masses, and get him to say that there is definitive evidence of human caused global warming. If he is a true scientist he will say no, if he is a liberal jackass he will say "uhh...." and probably just attack the way you asked the question instead of answering the question.

The truth is, I'm right and Al Gore is fat.

[Tan]

I'm sorry, your "facts" and your attacks against Al Gore indicate a lack of conviction on your part. I'm not even sure what he has to do with global warming, but I'm sure his being "fat" isn't part of it. It's hard to take a debate seriously when you have to come down to a junior high school level of discussion, so I figured I might as well entertain myself at your expense. 

[Three]

I'm not even sure what he has to do with global warming/quote]
He makes power point presentation-esque movies about it.