Hardware Guidelines and Workplan Discussion

[AndyC]

Dave, what's the feasability of altering some of the entries which are in as variants to having their own seperate ID?

Also could every one else give their two bobs worth to this whole subject it has obviously been pending for a while, and has started to reach a boiling point.

[bum-man]

I am ok with everything as stated, as long as it's consistent.

Another issue I think we need to address is what gets added.  I personally don't think we should add all of the items that come in a retail box as separate db entries, if it was available separately ok.  As an example under 32x there are listings for the plates and connecting cables, if those we not available by themselves (I don't have a clue if they were or not) then I don't think they should be entries.  Things like P/S or AV adaptors that you could purchase replacements packaged by themselves (original and 3rd party) would be ok.  To me that would be like adding a game that came on 5 CDs as 5 entries.

[St0rmTK421]

OK, I used Anthony's list of requirements and put them into an "adding new entries" section of the guidelines.  Whoever is writing the guidelines can use this as a starting point and flesh out the rest.


Adding New Entries

If a console or other piece of hardware does not exist in the database, it can be added through the "Add Hardware Entries" script.  Members may also suggest additions of hardware through the member submission script.  New hardware entries can be one of two classes: separate entry or variant. In order to determine which class a new entry is to be placed in, use the following checklist:
 
A hardware item deserves a separate entry if ANY of these conditions are met:

•   It is an original system

        OR

•   The internal specifications of the hardware has changed

        OR

•   It is part of a bundle that is not in the database

A hardware item deserves to be a variation if it DID NOT meet ANY of the requirements above and it fulfills ANY of the requirements below:

•   It has a different color

        OR

•   The UPC on system box is different

All other aspects of the entry must be identical to the main entry in order for it to be considered a variation, including the name.

If a new entry does not meet any of the above requirements for a variation or separate entry or you are not sure after reading these guidelines, post in the staff forum to resolve the issue. If necessary, these guidelines will be updated to reflect any new requirements decided upon.

[Marriott_Guy]

Hello all.

I like Storm's starting point for these guidelines.  However, I do think we need to add the following entries for the "Class" field when adding a new hardware piece:

o Consoles (this would replace 'Systems')
o Handhelds
o Arcade Machines
o Pongs
o Hybrid's

My thought is that if we start to gather all of this information without correctly identifying the 'Class', then the DB entry for 'Systems' will become extremely muddled with a little bit of everything.  Adding these new 'class' types to the available selections allows us the ability to easily offer sorting a collection by system type.  Not doing so now (establishing) the systems types) will cause a great deal of work down the road if planned/proposed expansions (Arcade Machines, etc.).

How The Class Should Be Determined For New Hardware Entries

Pongs
o Any system based on the AY-3-8500 chip, and variations of it.
o Games are built in the system and do not require catridges
o Requires a TV for display/gameplay

Arcade Machines
o Pretty Obvious

Handhelds
o Able to play immediately right out of the box
o Primary attribute is to be played anywhere and is portable
o Has an internal display screen/device

Consoles
o Plays catridges/media immediately upon starting without system set-up
o Primary purpose should be gameplay and have a significant library of cartridges/media to support this
o Used as a stationary device and require a TV to display/play (exceptions - Vectrex and Adventure Vision)

Hybrids (Primarily PC Hybrids like the C64, various MSX models, et al.)
o Requires booting an OS prior to playing a games
o Requires external add-ons to play games (i.e. C64 requires the drive)
o Exception - possibly DHS (DIScover technology) for the few Alien MM Stations

Let me know your thoughts, as well as if creating these new class segments is possible.

Thanks.

Terry

[Belgarath]

Hybrids? I'm sorry but what is a hybrid and how is a C64 meant to be a pc hybrid?
Surely they are just computers, pure and simple.

[TraderJake]

Arcades is going to be it's own separate db; it has too many differences from games and hardware to be in the same database. I guess it may be wise to delineate hardware from Arcades.

Don't forget to consider things like cords, controllers, and things that are not consoles or handhelds.

[TraderJake]

Dave, what's the feasability of altering some of the entries which are in as variants to having their own seperate ID?

Also could every one else give their two bobs worth to this whole subject it has obviously been pending for a while, and has started to reach a boiling point.

It can be done, but it is not very easy and I would rather not be transitioning thousands.

[Marriott_Guy]

Hybrids? I'm sorry but what is a hybrid and how is a C64 meant to be a pc hybrid?
Surely they are just computers, pure and simple.

Belgarath - yes - you are right.  This is a standard PC entry, but would differ from say a TI 99/4a, which is a hybrid of sorts since it accepts cartridges much like a console.  Hybrid is probably not warrented.

[Marriott_Guy]

OK – we have the June 8th deadline looming.  Here are my thoughts for our hardware guidelines
_____________________________________________________________

Hardware Guidelines

New Hardware Entries (must fulfill all requirements)
O Original Gaming System
O Unique cartridge/media and gaming programming language

New Hardware Variations (any of the following)
O Color variations
O Technical updates
O Regional releases
O Clones
O Systems with the ability to play media from multiple Original Game Systems that have been released by the same manufacturer/developer.

Use of ‘Multiple Consoles'
O Be able to play games from different systems and manufacturers

Accessories
O Be able to be purchased (currently or in the past) on their own and have a unique UPC code
O Bundled items that can not be purchased separately will not be included
O Must attach and interact with a gaming system

NOTES
O Systems with the ability to play media from multiple Original Game Systems should be listed as a variation of the latest Original Game System that said system can technically run.  Example: The JVC X'Eye should be listed as a variation of the Sega CD; The NEC Turbo Duo/Duo/Duo-R/etc. should be listed as a variation of the NEC PC Engine CD.  The Dina 2-in1 should be listed as a ‘Multiple Consoles' since it can play both Colecovision and Sega SG-1000 games.
_____________________________________________________________

I have read through this thread and have considered the arguments for adding a new entry.  A good example was the Sega Genesis that was discussed. 

The various releases of this system should all be listed as variations under the general Sega Genesis/Mega Drive hardware entry.  Each model has various technical and housing updates, but they accept and play only one type of media – the Sega Genesis cartridges.  Hence, they should all be listed together under one section.

Another good example is the Emerson Arcadia 2001.  The technology inside it was cloned and released under many different names throughout the world.  However, this is all based on the original technology that was first introduced by the original Arcadia.  The same applies to the Bally Professional Arcade, the Atari 2600, etc. 

The “Multiple Consoles” section should be used as a last resort.  Consoles designed to play games from multiple Original Game Systems are difficult to categorize.  For example, the NEC Turbo Duo combines play for two Original Game Systems but it currently has its own section, but does not fulfill the criteria stated above, hence it should be a variation of the NEC PC Engine CD

From looking at the individual items listed, we have a number of systems that should be listed as variations, or reclassed to the appropriate console.

Your thoughts are welcomed.

[TraderJake]

My Comments are in italics

Hardware Guidelines

New Hardware Entries (must fulfill all requirements)
O Original Gaming System
O Unique cartridge/media and gaming programming language
Manufacturer?

New Hardware Variations (any of the following)
O Color variations
O Technical updates
O Regional releases
O Clones
O Systems with the ability to play media from multiple Original Game Systems that have been released by the same manufacturer/developer.

Use of ‘Multiple Consoles'
O Be able to play games from different systems and manufacturers

Accessories
O Be able to be purchased (currently or in the past) on their own and have a unique UPC code
O Bundled items that can not be purchased separately will not be included <--What about the magic of ebay? Technically anything in this day and age can be bought separately
O Must attach and interact with a gaming system <--There is branded cases and stuff in the database, should that be removed? Personally, cases and crap should probably go under gaming memorabilia, a different database.

NOTES
O Systems with the ability to play media from multiple Original Game Systems should be listed as a variation of the latest Original Game System that said system can technically run.  Example: The JVC X'Eye should be listed as a variation of the Sega CD; The NEC Turbo Duo/Duo/Duo-R/etc. should be listed as a variation of the NEC PC Engine CD.  The Dina 2-in1 should be listed as a ‘Multiple Consoles' since it can play both Colecovision and Sega SG-1000 games. <-- Shouldn't Manufacturer be considered in the addition of new hardware? I believe it was in the past.
_____________________________________________________________

I have read through this thread and have considered the arguments for adding a new entry.  A good example was the Sega Genesis that was discussed. 

The various releases of this system should all be listed as variations under the general Sega Genesis/Mega Drive hardware entry.  Each model has various technical and housing updates, but they accept and play only one type of media – the Sega Genesis cartridges.  Hence, they should all be listed together under one section.

Another good example is the Emerson Arcadia 2001.  The technology inside it was cloned and released under many different names throughout the world.  However, this is all based on the original technology that was first introduced by the original Arcadia.  The same applies to the Bally Professional Arcade, the Atari 2600, etc. 

The “Multiple Consoles” section should be used as a last resort.  Consoles designed to play games from multiple Original Game Systems are difficult to categorize.  For example, the NEC Turbo Duo combines play for two Original Game Systems but it currently has its own section, but does not fulfill the criteria stated above, hence it should be a variation of the NEC PC Engine CD

Is it okay to move this to The Thinktank, so more people than just staff can comment on this, I am sure we are not the only ones with interest in this issue.

[Marriott_Guy]

Thanks for the feedback Trader.  My responses to your notes are italicized.

Manufacturer? --> Not needed since it has to be an Original Game System

What about the magic of ebay? Technically anything in this day and age can be bought separately --> This is true, but we can not be all-inclusive for every item.  In my opinion, it has to be/was able to be purchased separately.  If we do not limit this, then we have no way of verifying information submitted from users.

There is branded cases and stuff in the database, should that be removed? Personally, cases and crap should probably go under gaming memorabilia, a different database. --> Yes - they should be removed or relocated as you described.

Shouldn't Manufacturer be considered in the addition of new hardware? I believe it was in the past. --> No.  See my example on the Sega Genesis.  They all play the same games/media format.  Also, the Genesis 3 by Majesco does the same thing - all should be listed under the Sega Genesis / Mega Drive area.

Is it OK to move this to The Thinktank, so more people than just staff can comment on this, I am sure we are not the only ones with interest in this issue. --> I agree to gather other's opinions on this very important issue.  Should we wait a bit to refine what we have based upon yours and other staff members opinions before we do that?  Let me know.
Thanks!

[bum-man]

Just to be sure everyone is clear, we aren't talking about added a console listing type for each system that gets entered as an original, it's just a matter of getting it's own unique db id number ending in "A".  Either way all system that play Genesis games for example,  will be listed under Sega Genesis / Mega Drive.

[Tan]

What about unique modules? a Master Converter plays SMS games on the GameGear or Genesis, should it be with it's proprietary software library or with it's hardware? Same goes with the IBM PC add-on that plays turbografx cd games or the Pioneer Laseractive "PAC" modules that can play Genesis or TG16 games or the Amstrad Mega PC hybrid.

[Marriott_Guy]

Welcome back Tan - good to see you again!

Regarding the unique models, the items you listed are more of an accessory to an already established system that do not have any software specifically designed for use for said unit.  A difference might be the Sega 32X - it is an add-on, but had unique, software specifically designed and available for use on it.  The other adaptor-type add-ons should be listed as hardware, using the base unit it attaches to as it's 'parent'. 

Let me know if I hit on what you were thinking.

[Tan]

What I was asking is does everyone think an accessory like say a Genesis Master Converter be listed under the Genesis section or under the Master system Section. It could be argued both ways because a Master Converter has no bearing on any Genesis games and Yet it won't work without one.

The question boils down to listed under parent or listed under the software it utilizes. Which I think applies to the TurboGrafx System Cards as well.