"Bootleg" games in the database.

[Bear78]

Hey guys, I got a submission rejected so I thought I would come here and see what the consensus is.

The game that is in question is called "The Dragon" or "Bruce Lee" and is a Taiwanese "bootleg" famicom game. It uses some sprites from Mortal Kombat and some sound effects from a Micky Mouse game.  Here is some more info: http://bootleggames.wikia.com/wiki/The_Dragon

I guess my question is, why would this not count as games like Shui Hu: Feng Yun Zhuan are in the database.  It's almost the same kind of situation as it's a Taiwanese "bootleg" game that uses sprites from Streets of Rage and more.

http://bootleggames.wikia...ki/Shui_Hu_Feng_Yun_Zhuan
http://rfgeneration.com/c...nfo.pl?ID=C-040-S-00270-A

Also, there are Sachen games in the database which again, are considered "bootleg" games.

I get not putting repros and made on demand homebrews in the database but I think this should count.

[Schlibby]

Correct me if I'm wrong higher powers, but I think it comes down to exactly the nature of the game:

Unlicensed reproductions/pirate games (inc pirate multicarts) -  not allowed
Homebrews (ie completely new games) - allowed
Hacks (a mix of stolen IP and new programming) - not sure tbh

I think this would fall somewhere between hack and homebrew so not sure on its eligibility. Though I think I would lean towards include.

Correct me if im wrong on definitions and whats allowed in please.

PS - Sachen I believe are just unlicensed games which are allowed. Essentially homebrews from the same era as original release

[Duke.Togo]

Correct me if I'm wrong higher powers, but I think it comes down to exactly the nature of the game:

Unlicensed reproductions/pirate games (inc pirate multicarts) -  not allowed
Homebrews (ie completely new games) - allowed
Hacks (a mix of stolen IP and new programming) - not sure tbh

I think this would fall somewhere between hack and homebrew so not sure on its eligibility. Though I think I would lean towards include.

Correct me if im wrong on definitions and whats allowed in please.

PS - Sachen I believe are just unlicensed games which are allowed. Essentially homebrews from the same era as original release

I'd only clarify that hacks themselves are not allowed. A hack is where someone steals the code of another game and makes slight modifications.

In the case of Shui Hu: Feng Yun Zhuan, it's new code, even though it does borrow a lot of inspiration from other sprites (although they are not direct rips, but just takes the overall design and reworks them into that game engine). Honestly, most fighting games have to have generic baddies, and there is a lot of similarity in them, so it would be tough to get that tight. I remember back when Capcom sued Data East about Fighters History and lost. Unless it is a direct rip-off, there is room for similarity.

Sachen games were original, and perfectly acceptable.

[Bear78]

I included Sachen as I thought some of them lifted code from other games but I guess I'm wrong.

Regardless, the game in question is using original code with sprites lifted from Mortal Kombat, not entirely unlike Shui Hu. I guess I don't really know where this falls at but if the general consensus is that it doesn't belong, that's fine.

[Schlibby]

So what’s the verdict on Bear78’s game? Sounds enough like a homebrew to be included to me

[tactical_nuke]

I’m voting no based on stolen assets alone. There are low quality, low originality, unliscenced games, then there’s stuff that would be found on 100000000 in 1 pirate carts with no sense of IP. Even the Caltron cart uses original visuals even if the game mechanics are lifted. (Correct me if they straight-up copy pasted the code). My stance specifically on NES is that everything unliscenced vintage-wise of note is already in the DB.

[Duke.Togo]

Here's the problem as I see it. Chinese bootleg Famicom games were (and still are) a dime-a-dozen, and identifying an original "release" is difficult as next to nothing there is official. Games got copied like crazy as copyright was purely ignored.

Also, obviously this game certainly didn't have the license to produce a Bruce Lee game. I have Earthworm Jim, Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter II, and several Harry Potter games for the Famicom, but I wouldn't include any of them in the database here. I collect them when I find them, but they just don't belong.

If anything, I'd be tempted to toss out Shui Hu: Feng Yun Zhuan and leave in Water Margin - The Tales of Clouds and Wind. At least it has some identifiable legit(-ish) release.

At this time, I'm going to say no. If you can produce suitable proof to show a standalone, legit (at least by the intended developer) release, then we can approach it again.

[Schlibby]

I’m voting no based on stolen assets alone. There are low quality, low originality, unliscenced games, then there’s stuff that would be found on 100000000 in 1 pirate carts with no sense of IP. Even the Caltron cart uses original visuals even if the game mechanics are lifted. (Correct me if they straight-up copy pasted the code). My stance specifically on NES is that everything unliscenced vintage-wise of note is already in the DB.

Everything unlicensed and American is in the database. ;-)

I only recently added the sachen games and there are still variants that haven’t been added. There are many Spanish gluk games not in the database. There are lots of variants of Australian HES games not in the database