April 2017 Playthrough - Child of Light

[singlebanana]

I just got to the thorn tree and beat the giant.  I like the art also but agree the story is ok.  I have only found the jester so far.

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You are very, VERY early in the game.  The story gets more interesting as you get closer to the end.  I do agree with Crabby on in that there is something in how it is being told; it doesn't advance much throughout the game. It's simple and not an intense narrative. However, with that said, I could say the same thing about a game such as "The Legend of Zelda" or "A Link to the Past," granted not RPGs by formulaic standards, but still, games considered amazing classics where gameplay outweighs the story. 

I don't think that the gameplay is bad, but I do agree that some of it is wash and repeat....if you let it be. I think it's a shame that you decided to stick with one duo for the entirety of the game, as mixing it up and trying out different talents can be a lot of fun and make the experience much better. Just because the game doesn't force you to rearrange like others do, doesn't necessarily make it bad. I think making the personal choice not to flush the characters out more is a mistake.

I didn't notice any polygonal difference in my main character as it compared to the rest of the artwork in the game. Were you playing on the Vita, or another system?  Just curious as to whether this may be specific to a console.

Granted, CoL is not a very difficult game (though you can play the more difficult +edition a second time through if you want a challenge).  I don't fault the low difficulty and I think it's charm has to do with how it can be played by all level of gamers.  I know that the Vita even offers a "difficult" setting at the beginning, so I think the option is there for more challenge.  I think there is something to be said about shorter games like this that also have a lack of overbearing difficulty. I can appreciate what they are doing in opening the game up to less experienced players.  Though it has a few tweaks, I think it feels a lot like a more classic RPG and to me, that was refreshing.

I'm quite surprised that you are being so highly negative of this game Crabby, as I and several others who are decent and long-time RPG players seemed to have really enjoyed our time with it. To each their own, but I have to ask, do you think that possibly being in a hurry to finish CoL to be able to take in Persona 5 may have been a contributing factor to what seems to be an overly negative experience with this game?  I'm not sure that CoL, though it can be completed quickly, is a game that is intended to be rushed through.  My preference was to sit back, take my time, seek out the areas fully (whether I needed to or not), and enjoy the beauty that this game has to offer. 

[MaterialHandlerMike]

Hey Crabby, do I have time to rush through this, before Persona 5?

[Crabmaster2000]

@Rich - I think with something like Zelda LttP storywise is that you play for long stretches without story progression so when you get little sprinklings of story they seem more impactful. When you get dialogue every few minutes it's maybe too much. Not 100% confident with this just thinking out loud.

I don't think that the gameplay is bad, but I do agree that some of it is wash and repeat....if you let it be. I think it's a shame that you decided to stick with one duo for the entirety of the game, as mixing it up and trying out different talents can be a lot of fun and make the experience much better. Just because the game doesn't force you to rearrange like others do, doesn't necessarily make it bad. I think making the personal choice not to flush the characters out more is a mistake.

I think it's lazy design to not find inventive ways to encourage players to explore your game if that is the intention. When you've got a game that takes less than 10 hours to complete, but requires a relatively long time investment to improve characters long enough to make some of them viable/interesting coupled with the fact that there were 8 playable characters on my team throughout the game it seems unavoidable that several of them are going to get overlooked. I obviously started with Rubella as my teammate early on. Weak attack power and a focus on healing, a skill that you could easily replace with items/Igniculus/playing well, really made her unnecessary to the game since she doesn't have a relevance to the story either. Cut that character out or make them more interesting and useful.

Without giving too much away for late in the game I played an entire dungeon with a very physical character on my team. While it did change up the way I approached battles since I lost a big chunk of my firepower by not having Finn I had to rely more on Taunting and defense with one character while chipping away with the other.  The battles were still very simple and repetitive just longer.

Granted sticking to a team and trying my best to master them is how I play every RPG unless forced to do otherwise. I like finding characters that I either find interesting, like the design of, or sometimes seem the silliest and force them onto my team. They might not be the most synergistic or powerful, but they are the characters I like the best and I want to learn how to use them efficiently enough to beat the most challenging areas of a game. I even do this in action games with weapons. Duke kept complaining when I was playing through Mega Man 10 at his house that I wasn't exploring the new weapon choices available to me. I know how the Buster works and I feel comfortable using it unless forced to do otherwise. I finished Bloodborne with my starting weapon of the Hunter's Ax because I got so used to it I didn't want to put the time into learning the intricacies of mastering a new weapon when I found them and was still able to be successful on later bosses just by getting proficient with the Ax.

And judging by Ghost's tips and tricks section at the start there are more than one way to "break" the combat in this game

I didn't notice any polygonal difference in my main character as it compared to the rest of the artwork in the game. Were you playing on the Vita, or another system?  Just curious as to whether this may be specific to a console.

I did play through this on the Vita. It really bugged me when she was in motion. Standing still it wasn't quite as glaring. But the times that it was the worst were when she faced the player. It looked like she was cut from another game and pasted into this one.

I'm quite surprised that you are being so highly negative of this game Crabby, as I and several others who are decent and long-time RPG players seemed to have really enjoyed our time with it. To each their own, but I have to ask, do you think that possibly being in a hurry to finish CoL to be able to take in Persona 5 may have been a contributing factor to what seems to be an overly negative experience with this game?  I'm not sure that CoL, though it can be completed quickly, is a game that is intended to be rushed through.  My preference was to sit back, take my time, seek out the areas fully (whether I needed to or not), and enjoy the beauty that this game has to offer. 

I wouldn't say I was rushing to finish. Just had a lot of spare time at work over the last few days to sink in. I would have simply put it on the back burner after P5 came out if I hadn't finished it by then. Most of the areas I found nearly all of the collectible items except in the final area where I stopped caring after noticing items weren't really necessary at that point. I took the time to explore the world and find little secrets and complete many of the side quests (including the flying pig hunt, lol). I think playing Song of the Deep so close to this may have made Child of Light not feel so unique and special since they share a lot in terms of design, story telling and art despite being in different genres.

Here's a couple screenshots to show you what I mean. Notice the father daughter dynamic in Song of the Deep that was also very much akin to Child of Light in the second pic. I know Child of Light came out earlier so it's not it's own fault, but I didn't play them in that order so it unintentionally flavored my experience I think.

[img width=700 height=393]https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2825/33831236965_4e7debb6a6_o.jpg[/img]

[img width=700 height=393]https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3946/33017741963_f1a938ebf6_o.jpg[/img]

This is not a game I ever see myself playing again, BUT depending on the person I could see myself recommending it to someone as an entry into the jRPG realm. I do see it's value, but this game obviously wasn't made to be played like I want to play it.

PS - No one wants to comment on how they stole the FFIX jesters!! Look at those facial markings, the ears, the hats!!

[singlebanana]

Hey Crabby, do I have time to rush through this, before Persona 5?

[img width=476 height=412]http://www.blogcdn.com/slideshows/images/slides/374/441/6/S3744416/slug/l/screen-shot-2015-12-19-at-10-36-12-pm-1.jpg[/img]

Trolls gonna troll....  If you have something game related to say here after actually playing the game, do it. If not, well....you know.

@Rich - I think with something like Zelda LttP storywise is that you play for long stretches without story progression so when you get little sprinklings of story they seem more impactful. When you get dialogue every few minutes it's maybe too much. Not 100% confident with this just thinking out loud

Okay, I'm understanding what you're talking about a little bit more now. My comments pertained to the overall story, while you seem to be talking about the stories of the side characters and the overabundance of dialogue that occurs after you find a new one.  I agree, that dialogue didn't add a lot to the story and was rather intrusive (i.e. slowed the game down).

I think it's lazy design to not find inventive ways to encourage players to explore your game if that is the intention. When you've got a game that takes less than 10 hours to complete, but requires a relatively long time investment to improve characters long enough to make some of them viable/interesting coupled with the fact that there were 8 playable characters on my team throughout the game it seems unavoidable that several of them are going to get overlooked. I obviously started with Rubella as my teammate early on. Weak attack power and a focus on healing, a skill that you could easily replace with items/Igniculus/playing well, really made her unnecessary to the game since she doesn't have a relevance to the story either. Cut that character out or make them more interesting and useful.

Without giving too much away for late in the game I played an entire dungeon with a very physical character on my team. While it did change up the way I approached battles since I lost a big chunk of my firepower by not having Finn I had to rely more on Taunting and defense with one character while chipping away with the other.  The battles were still very simple and repetitive just longer.

I can agree to a point. While I did find some of the characters a little useless, I did play them all and worked out their talent trees to fit a certain style I felt necessary for establishing supporting roles.  For me, it was fun to swap them out during battles and have some fun with their different talents. Sure, you could play the entire game with two characters, but my curiosity and willingness to experiment with different combinations of party members got the better of me.  I guess this is just the way I tend to play these types of games, so to each their own.

I am very familiar with the physical character you mentioned that you get later in the game.  I really liked that character a lot and I think it changed the way I played the game a great deal.  I played in different spurts of party members with Aurora. I started with

Spoiler (hover to show)

Rubella of course, moved onto Finn, then to Norah, back to Finn & Robert, and finally ended with Onegus.

 Having a tanking toon was pretty cool and provided another way to play and yes, "break" the game.  As I mentioned before, I really didn't have a problem with the ease of this game and the ability to set it for more challenging play in the beginning and on a second playthrough (+) kind of negates any complaints of ease.  If anything, I think it, along with the art style, make the game more approachable for those being introduced to RPGs.  I don't necessarily see this as a bad thing, since it does offer a few more challenging options for the more experienced.

I think playing Song of the Deep so close to this may have made Child of Light not feel so unique and special since they share a lot in terms of design, story telling and art despite being in different genres.

That makes sense. I've never played SotD, but can see how they are very similar.  Thanks for pointing this out!

As always, appreciate the comments Crabby!  

[Crabmaster2000]

I meant the overall story. When I get a constant onslaught of dialogue boxes I tend to not get the excited when new dialogue boxes pop up, even if they are much more relevant to the overall plot.

I actually started New Game + this morning and selected Hard Difficulty to see if I could use my same tactics or if I needed to explore the game a bit deeper. I'm at chapter 6 now and still havn't lost a fight. Although there have been a few close calls and I've had to use Igniculus a lot more wisely than my first play. Even used a couple items in battle on a boss fight!

Rubella is useless though. Just terrible. Like the worst.

[img width=700 height=393]https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2836/33794812556_ea6185abfc_o.jpg[/img]

[singlebanana]

Rubella is useless though. Just terrible. Like the worst.

Yeah, she's pretty bad. Be cool if the duo had some special "Wonder Twin" powers.

[Crabmaster2000]

Rubella is useless though. Just terrible. Like the worst.

Yeah, she's pretty bad. Be cool if the duo had some special "Wonder Twin" powers.

Totally epic!

[Disposed Hero]

I started the game over the weekend and am probably around the halfway point now, and I'm really enjoying the game so far.  I have to agree that the default difficulty setting felt far too easy, but after a couple of battles I turned the difficulty up to Hard and feel that this is a more appropriate difficulty level for the game.  I've had a few close calls, but haven't gotten a Game Over yet.  I've been making good use of items and rotating my characters regularly (and I even make good use of Rubella's healing since I like to hoard my items as much as I can).

The only real gripe I have with the game right now, however minor it may be, is the Oculi system.  I actually really like the ability to equip the gems and gain an advantage over enemies of certain elements, but I just find it to be a pain to have to re-equip all of my characters' gems every time the enemies' elemental types change.

[Crabmaster2000]

I started the game over the weekend and am probably around the halfway point now, and I'm really enjoying the game so far.  I have to agree that the default difficulty setting felt far too easy, but after a couple of battles I turned the difficulty up to Hard and feel that this is a more appropriate difficulty level for the game.  I've had a few close calls, but haven't gotten a Game Over yet.  I've been making good use of items and rotating my characters regularly (and I even make good use of Rubella's healing since I like to hoard my items as much as I can).

The only real gripe I have with the game right now, however minor it may be, is the Oculi system.  I actually really like the ability to equip the gems and gain an advantage over enemies of certain elements, but I just find it to be a pain to have to re-equip all of my characters' gems every time the enemies' elemental types change.

Yeah the Oculi system wasn't an issue on my initial playthrough because of the ease. I could see that being very frustrating in Hard Mode.

[singlebanana]

I have to agree with Steven about the Oculi system.  Switching those things in and out constantly was a pain in the ass. Plus, when crafting stronger Oculi, I found that I didn't have enough to spread out to all of my characters, since it took 3 to upgrade.  I would have preferred to not have separate Oculi stats for offense/defense/bonus?.  It would have been better if I gem could have served for fire prot, fire damage, and my bonus.  Plus, you had to remove gems from all of your players to upgrade and craft them, which was further aggravating. I think that this was a fairly complicated system (in terms of time dedicated to it, not difficulty) for such a short game and that minimizing it would have made it more efficient.  Just my 2 cents.  

[GrayGhost81]

This thread sure has gotten off to a rollicking start, which was certainly not what I was expecting! I love it though. I really appreciate the verbosity of everyone's thoughts.

Crabby, I can certainly see why someone with your history as someone who relishes in old-school, twitch based, "NES-hard" gameplay would find this game to be too easy, to the point where it turned you off. Everything you have written is valid from this viewpoint.

For me, as much as I love video games and they are a huge part of my life, I'm not very good at most of them. I tend to skew towards games that are easier, more pleasant, and more relaxing as opposed to going to gaming looking for a challenge. I'm of the mindset that life is stressful enough that I (mostly) choose leisure activities that help me escape that stress, not add to it.

I do know the difference between a game that is easy and a game that is too easy because of design flaws. I recently played Crusader of Centy, an action adventure game designed for children. Though it was easy and breezy overall, I never felt bored or insulted except for one boss battle. This particular boss was defeated with three hits before it could even move. That is poor design which made me gripe "too easy!" as a result.

As for Child of Light, it was definitely right in my wheelhouse and I would be hard pressed to point out any major design flaws for a player of average or below average ability like myself. I played on easy, and though I never game-overed, I had plenty of instances where things got pretty hairy and thus pretty thrilling. Yes, perhaps there are too many systems stacking to the player's advantage, but I love when games can be broken with the right combinations of tactics. Without getting too much into it, it reminds me a tiny bit of Symphony of the Night.

I also didn't really notice anything amiss with Aurora's model, but I can see it being one of those things you couldn't "unsee" once you noticed it.

[Raidou]

Beat the game this afternoon. I would have beaten it earlier but one of the side quests was giving me some grief (two in the plain my eye!!)

As charming as the rhyming theme was, it bugged me, as it was a clear case of ambition outweighing ability.  Crabby mentioned that the rhymes got worse as the game went on, but I found that the game struggled on this front from start to finish.  Dialogue would sometimes shift from rhyming every second line to rhyming couplets.  There are also quite a few lines with forced rhymes, such as having two people speak on one line, odd lines being overly long syllabically, and "brrr".  The best thing about the rhyming dialogue was when Rubella would accidentally ruin it.

[GrayGhost81]

The best thing about the rhyming dialogue was when Rubella would accidentally ruin it.

This made me laugh! (not when it happened in-game, I mean this comment)

[singlebanana]

As charming as the rhyming theme was, it bugged me, as it was a clear case of ambition outweighing ability.  Crabby mentioned that the rhymes got worse as the game went on, but I found that the game struggled on this front from start to finish.  Dialogue would sometimes shift from rhyming every second line to rhyming couplets.  There are also quite a few lines with forced rhymes, such as having two people speak on one line, odd lines being overly long syllabically, and "brrr".  The best thing about the rhyming dialogue was when Rubella would accidentally ruin it.

Yeah, I can't deny that while charming, the rhyming dialogue can be a bit annoying.  It seems to be a valiant effort in the beginning, but it falls off in terms of quality toward the middle of the game.  Still, I think the rhyming dialogue gives it a child-like feel and conceptually works for a fairy tale type game, which this is.  I think I sent a message to Shawn at some point that this game is like a combination of Shakespeare and a Disney film.

[douglie007]

So until you started talking about it. I didn't see the rhyming.  Lol dyslexia is a bitch, I read each line, but never seen it I just thought they talked odd

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