Homebrew, Reproduction & Hack Guidelines

[techwizard]

They are piracy, I don't disagree with that. However they exist, and are a part of many gamer's collections. Therefore I believe they should be cataloged in some way. That's just my 2 cents.

the problem is that the site wants to try and stay away from cataloging things that are illegal basically. i don't think there's much else to it than that

[tactical_nuke]

Pretty sure Nintendo can come down on the site that was selling DK Pie Factory. And that's still in the DB... Those games I mentioned that were using copyrighted IPs can't be legal and yet here they are.

[Shadow Kisuragi]

This is something I've said that I will step aside in for conversation's sake for multiple reasons, but I did want to correct something: There's nothing illegal about tracking information on pirates/bootlegs. It's not an issue about protecting the site. It's more an issue about quality control in my mind.

[supernorst]

I agree with you fully Shadow Kisuragi. I will also state that I feel there is little difference in listing a hack like DK Pie Factory, and a mario 3 hack like Super Mario Adventure or say the fixed version of Castlevania 2.

[Shadow Kisuragi]

There are high quality hacks/bootlegs like Pokemon Black, and then there are things like the random Brazilian MK hacks that izret wants to track. What separates the two? Should both be in the database? The first was created by a team, and the second was some random cartridge that someone hacked up since it was illegal in their country.

[supernorst]

I would say both should be in the database. Many of these hacks are worth playing. Super Mario Adventure gets a huge amount of playtime from me. The only restriction I would add is that these games should have physical releases to be in the database, along with some quantity of games produced. I would also prefer that the variants be cataloged, different repro teams/individuals should be noted for example.

[nupoile]

I fall into the, "if the item exists, we should track it" crowd.

RFG isn't in the business of deciding the legality of items. We just want to track things. I'm sure if we dug around we could find all sorts of games that have dubious legal rights to be sold, in our DB. I'm not sure why we are worried about it. In my garage, right now, is an obvious, full sized, bootlegged Ms Pac Man arcade machine. It was made in 1982, along with many other bootlegged Ms Pac Man's of various quality. They are part of history. They exist. What does it matter that the manufacturer probably didn't have Bally-Midway's permission to be sold as far as it being a thing, an item, an object that exists?

That being said, RFG (in my mind) should still practice discretion when approving submissions that are obviously fake, homemade-one-offs or jokes.

Also, if we are worried about the man-power to work on these items submission wise, that is a separate topic. I don't want to have lax standards just because I want to see "hacks, bootlegs, ect." in the DB. If there aren't knowledgeable approvers for items being submitted, than something else needs to be worked out.

[leej07]

What about games like Kabobber or Thwocker? They were prototypes which were later released. Are they homebrews when Activision is the company that finally did release them?

[Duke.Togo]

I'll play devils advocate. If I download a ROM, burn it to an EPROM and solder it into a cart, and I only make one copy for myself, it exists. Should I then expect it to be in our database?

I realize this is taking the argument to its extreme, but if we set guidelines they should apply universally IMHO.

[techwizard]

i never meant that it's illegal to track them, just that i figured we wanted to stay away from anything released in illegal ways...unlicensed being a bit more of a grey area, and homebrew being completely ok in my mind because those are usually completely original games and not just straight copies to profit off someone else's work.

[leej07]

But what about the games I mentioned? Are the Homebrews? Or official releases?

[Duke.Togo]

From what I read, Thwocker and Kabobber are just prototypes that someone found and released. Technically, whoever produces cartridges of those (or in some other collection) would be committing piracy. If Activision themselves decided to do a run of carts or included them in a compilation, then that would be a legitimate release.

Homebrew is a game made by a programmer (or small group) that is produced for a system that is past its commercial life span.

A pirate is either a direct copy of a game, or a new game using IP that they don't own the rights to.

I've heard people also use the term "pirate originals" for software released for a system clone that is unauthorized. Honestly though, if it is compatible with the original hardware, I would consider it unlicensed.

RFG makes no distinction at this time in the database regarding licensed/unlicensed/pirate.

[leej07]

Ah, I understand then. I happen to know that Activision did in fact release Kabobber and Thwocker as part of Activision Hits Remixed for the PSP. Theoretically, I believe that could make them eligible for inclusion on the database.

[ApolloBoy]

Theoretically, I believe that could make them eligible for inclusion on the database.

They were never officially released on the 2600 so no, they can't be included.

[leej07]

That is sad. The completist in me wishes this site had a prototype listing. But of course, I understand that would cause too much confusion.
I'm confused, though... Why is Combat 2 included on the database?