I feel Violated

[Hydrobond]

I know the situation is worse in the USA than it is in Europe, but it's definately no disaster.  It seems that everyone thinks that low gas prices are the result of situations that lead to more car usage: 'gas prices need to be cheap, because there's no public transport and everything is far apart'.

But it might as well be the cause of that situation. If in the early days cars weren't made available to everyone at cheap prices with cheap gas the whole country might have looked very different. And if low gas prices cause situations in which you will need your car a lot, high prices might cause the opposite. The demand for public transport will increase. Housing will be more concentrated. Maybe shops will be opened again near smaller villages. etc. etc.

It's not as if everything will just (have to) stay the same, just because it's like that now. We will run out of fossil fuels sooner or later anyway.

It is slowly changing.  The inner city areas are slowly becoming gentrified, and people are starting to move back into the city limits.  In Cincinnati, there is a condo/apartment boom going on currently.  Just about every old, empty downtown building is being turned into lofts and there are several new apartment building proposals.

Here is a thread about one of the new inner city developments.  It is about a mile west of downtown in an area aptly named the West End.
http://www.urbanohio.com/...m2/index.php?topic=1743.0


Here is an area just north of downtown that has been gentrified (mostly) already.  You can also see what new urban development looks like.
Prospect Hill:
http://www.urbanohio.com/...um2/index.php?topic=327.0


Of course, these projects are much rarer than the McMansion suburb developments.  


And THX, it is quite unusual, it's like a real-time conversation today. I guess the trick yesterday got us all happy to see the old boards back. ;-)

[thx1138]

what trick? I missed April 1st jokes, as I was asleep in a cabin on board a ferry in the English channel

[Lord Nepenthean]

http://composite.rfgeneration.com

[Hydrobond]

I had a few bottles of Absenthe though

Isn't that illegal in the states?

[thx1138]

Probably.  I know that Khat (Qat?) Which can be bought quite legally here, is a banned substance in the USA.

This absinthe, isn't quite the same as the old Victorian era drink though, it's more a kinda "echo" of it. It's all pre-mixed, to very safe levels. I think a few gothic poseuers, might still make it the old fashioned way, but I care about my health.

[TraderJake]

Today gas hit 2.34 at most places in the Queen City, those who kept their prices at 2.18 or below saw either their pumps run dry or face such long lines that those trying to get in blocked the exits and even overflowed onto the main arterial. As a future traffic engineer, light rail, please.

[Hydrobond]

Light rail isn't the answer. We need jet packs!

[TraderJake]

That spit out blue flames o' death! Hell yeah!

But on the serious side,  Cincinnati really needs some sort of mass transit that isn't the bus.

[Sauza12]

The transportation situation in this country is so fucked that the day that we run out of fossils, the entire country is going to grind to a screaching halt.  Here in Detroit we have this joke of a mass transportation system called the People Mover.  It's a God Damned monorail to nowhere.  Maybe if we could get a train system like they have in Chicago then we could start talking, but for now it's just worthless.

Also, I don't like those arguments comparing Europes gas prices to ours.  The comparision isn't proper.  We should be compared to other oil producing countries.  Any other country that produces a substantial amount of oil gets their gas for dirt cheap.  I can't remember the exact country, but somewhere in South America you can fill up your tank for 35 cents.  In fact compared to other major producers of oil, The U.S. pays something like 2 or 3 times what other countries do.  I realize that the circumstances are different in some of these countries (I don't think they have too many traffic jams in Guatemala), but it still kind of irks me.

[Arrrhalomynn]

Europe produces oil. Maybe not as much as the USA, but it is produced here. And there is a lot of oil refining.

[den68]

Here in Detroit we have this joke of a mass transportation system called the People Mover.  It's a God Damned monorail to nowhere.

best description of Coleman's Train that I've ever heard!

when I first stared driving gas was under a buck a gallon. sure I wish it was still that cheap but it is what it is. I suppose if I were still a student or working a minimum wage part time job it would be more of a burden. I've got a small car and work close to home so I get a weeks worth of driving out of a tank of gas and that's including all my weekend jaunts.

[Arrrhalomynn]

Small car? Where did your mustang go?

[Hydrobond]

By US definition, any car with two doors is a small car.  

[Lord Nepenthean]

I can't remember the exact country, but somewhere in South America you can fill up your tank for 35 cents.  In fact compared to other major producers of oil, The U.S. pays something like 2 or 3 times what other countries do.  I realize that the circumstances are different in some of these countries (I don't think they have too many traffic jams in Guatemala), but it still kind of irks me.

I dunno where you heard that, but I'd be very interested to know/  It's certainly not Peru, because gas prices were two or three times what they were here for a liter, not even for a gallon.  I know similar things can be said for most of South America, but perhaps not all.  In Brazil, many of their cars have run on alcohol or partly on alcohol since the energy crisis of the 1970's.  Apparently that was sort of kind of phased out in the 1990's, but it seems it is coming back now due to high fuel prices.

As for traffic jams....  in the big cities, you would not even believe it until you see it.  Nobody follows traffic laws, and because of this, cars enter intersections from four directions at the same time, and it is a MESS.  I've never seen worse traffic jams.  Somehow people manage to make at least nine lanes out of five.  Nobody owns a personal vehicle, but being a taxi or minibus driver is a very common profession, and because of this, big cities in South America are very, very crowded with cars and pollution.  I remember gas being so expensive and drivers being so poor that they ALWAYS drove below empty, and whenever we were going more than a mile or so, we had to pay half in advance so they could put 60 cents worth of gas in the car.  I have no idea how they made a profit with gas prices so high and fares so low.

[TraderJake]

As for traffic jams....  in the big cities, you would not even believe it until you see it.  Nobody follows traffic laws, and because of this, cars enter intersections from four directions at the same time, and it is a MESS.  I've never seen worse traffic jams.  Somehow people manage to make at least nine lanes out of five.

Funny you should mention that, I had to do 2 rush hour traffic counts in Historic Downtown Mason, Ohio, and it was funny how many laws were being broken. Only a single car followed the "No Turn on Red" Sign,  and the intersection was so backed up that people felt it necessary to run every red light that was given to them. Couple that with the illegal activity of blocking the intersection to move through the intersection while avoiding a cycle and you have yourself one hell of a dangerous intersection during rush hour. I saw probably three near miss collisons today because people were riding each others ass trying to squeeze through the intersection.

Two things on this.
Traffic Engineers spend a lot of time determining the timings and signage at the intersection. If it wasn't of maximus benefit for your safety and the capacity of the intersection then do you think we'd really do it that way? You can argue that old intersections are dilipadated and don't meet current standards, but then you'd have to remember that those intersections were created at a time when those designs were safe. Who ever thought in 1940 that people would be speeding in cars over 65 mph over 6% grades designed for a maximum of 55 mph? Not many people, probably. The truth of the matter is that intersections and interchanges are regulated with restrictions for your safety as well as the safety of others. Don't make yourself vunerable for an accident because you thought the signage was unneccessary and stupid. You might regret it in the future.

Second, Americans (to be more specific, the stereotypical American) are the most self-centered group of individuals in the world. How honestly is cursing at someone 2 cars  up that refuses to illegally block the intersection the right thing to do? So what if you are running late, you should have planned ahead, it isn't as though the traffic patterns haven't been around for a while, deal with it. Americans only care about themselves, and would be willing to compromise and incovenience others as well as themselves to get to where they need to be quick. Screw everyone else, it's all about me, me, me. People need to stop thinking that way, and look at the big picture. You're not the most important person in the universe, in fact, everyone else is just as important as you (Thanks Jesuit Education!) Learn to accept that, and live your life less self centeredly.

REMINDER: Refering to the Stereotypical American, not all Americans. Please don't be offended if you don't fit my description.