Reproduction Carts

[RDNintendo]

Hi, I don't post here often, but I figured this could either be a really good place, or a really bad place to ask this question, depending on how you guys take it.

Let me start with a little backstory: There's a small gaming store my friends and I frequent. They sell games from the Atari to the Wii U. The owners always seemed to know what they were doing and they always seemed to be knowledgeable. One day, I walked in and noticed something odd. Final Fantasy V for the SNES was on sale for about $50. Any collector who's worth their salt immediately knows FFV never got a SNES release, as Square never localized the Super Famicom version. In a somewhat arrogant move, I pointed this out to the clerk. He responded in a somewhat condescending manner and told me that it was a Repro Cart. Then he got into technicalities about how they were allowed to sell it since FFV never saw a SNES release, blahblah. Honestly, I think it's bollocks. I'm insulted that the Repro Cart goes for $50, let alone is allowed to be sold in the first place, when I see the Super Famicom version often for $10-$20.

So here's my question: How can I go about making a Repro Cart of the same nature?

Before some people are tempted to badger me (And I understand fully) read this part too:

1. I would use the cart exclusively for personal purposes.

2. I would never put it on the market.

3. I already own the Super Famicom version. I wanted an authentic copy to show my respect while I play the game in its native format in my own language.

4. I'm doing this because
       
       a) I can't read Japanese (I am learning though)

       b) It doesn't feel just paying for a fake. Especially when it's some greedy jerk's attempt to cash in on Square's art.

       c) I want to get as close as I can to playing the game's most authentic form (inb4 someone suggests the PS1 comp.)

5. Most importantly, I would never consider this a true piece in my collection. It would merely serve as a bridge between the true art and myself.

So with that in mind, any help?

****Also, I wanna note that at that same store, I say an FF6 repro going for $70 and the authentic going for $42. lolwut. Also, I'm not even gonna ask how they justify selling that lol.

[Shadow Kisuragi]

Why do you see a problem with selling a reproduction cart for more than the original version? A lot of work from fans went into translating it, and it likely goes for more due to supply/demand for a US version. The equipment needed to make them isn't all that cheap either.

As for creating one, there are quite a few guides out there. AssemblerGames probably has the most knowledgeable people to get you going, and I know racketboy has some people as well.

http://www.assemblergames...epoduction-NES-SNES-carts

[nupoile]

I don't imagine many people here have a big problem with repro carts as the market stands today. For the most part it is games which are either extremely rare or nonexistent that turn up on repros. Fan translations and Nintendo World Championships are a good examples. This is an entirely different thing (in many peoples view) than knock-offs or bootlegs, which is frowned upon (by those same people.)

I fully understand either not caring to have one in your own collection or not considering it a "true" part of your collection.


Assuming people who know more than me will jump in here, the first place I would look on making your own "repro" is the Nintendo Age forums.
http://www.nintendoage.co...m/categories.cfm?catid=22
Since repros and homebrew carts have very similar factors, looking at info on how to make a homebrew is going to be helpful.

With my small amount of knowledge on the subject, I think the process of making a repro cart is something like this;
-Finding a suitable donor cart.
          "Suitable" means the circuit board will work for the game you want. Not all boards are the same.
-Remove label.
-Create and apply your own label.
-De-solder eproms from circuit board.
-Have a rom of the game you want to put on the cart ready to go. This involves being able to re-write the code if you are making a translation. Both for language and compatibility to the "new" cart.
-Have use of a eprom burner, or send the eproms off to someplace that does. There are places which do this as a bussiness.
-Re-solder chips to board and reassemble.

As far as the cost of these games go, I think they are generally under priced (homebrews even more so.) If compared to bootlegs and knockoffs, which are often made in China and sold there by the millions, made in factories set up for mass production, yes they would be expensive. The kind of thing you are talking about is a labor of love, done by hand by someone who truly cares about the game and is sold in very very small numbers. A dozen? A few dozen? With all the time that goes into building a cart by hand, I think the creators of repros aren't charging any more than deserved.


If you do build one, show pictures. I want to know more about how it's done 

[Shadow Kisuragi]

The steps you described as essentially the basics - finding a compatible cart is definitely the major item, and flashing an EEPROM is where the money comes in. If you do it more than a few times, it's worth the cost of investment on the equipment, but you'll likely want to go with either paying someone to flash one for you or buying one already made to avoid the one-time cost.

You can also just avoid this whole route and buy a flash cart.

[RDNintendo]

Thanks for the tips, guys. I suppose my main problem is that people are selling work that isn't theirs. If it's something you're creating for private use, or selling and finding a way to give the creators a cut (I guess that sounds a little implausible), then that's fine. Also, sorry if I seemed really over-cautious. Repros can be a controversial subject for some collectors, so I figured I should be careful. However, I'm glad I've found a forum where we can disagree on some aspects of a subject and still have a civil conversation about it. Quite a rarity on the internet haha.

[nupoile]

This is an unusual place, people are actually nice here 

Hi, I don't post here often....

You should post more often, there's good stuff here.

[RDNintendo]

This is an unusual place, people are actually nice here 

Hi, I don't post here often....

You should post more often, there's good stuff here.

So I see XD

[Shadow Kisuragi]

Take it from an actual developer - improving the game is something we'll all support, and considering that you're spreading the work of fans, I doubt it'd be a problem as long as someone's not claiming the work as their own. The fans created the translation - you're just patching it onto physical hardware.

As long as you don't claim the ROM as yours, you're good.

[RDNintendo]

Take it from an actual developer - improving the game is something we'll all support, and considering that you're spreading the work of fans, I doubt it'd be a problem as long as someone's not claiming the work as their own. The fans created the translation - you're just patching it onto physical hardware.

As long as you don't claim the ROM as yours, you're good.

An actual dev, huh? Wow dude, that's pretty cool. I'm actually going to major in Game Design at University of Southern California next year. Any tips for a newcomer to the industry?

[Ze_ro]

Then he got into technicalities about how they were allowed to sell it since FFV never saw a SNES release, blahblah. Honestly, I think it's bollocks.

Yeah, I'm not 100% sure of the laws involved, but I'm pretty sure that's not true at all. But whatever.

Why do you see a problem with selling a reproduction cart for more than the original version? A lot of work from fans went into translating it, and it likely goes for more due to supply/demand for a US version.

The usual complaint is that none of the profits go towards the guys who actually did the translation. They generally disapprove of repros because of this... but there's not really any legal way for them to profit off any of this, so again, whatever.

$50 seems a bit expensive unless they managed to print a nice box and manual for it. You can make it cheaper yourself if you know what you're doing... but if you factor the cost of EEPROM burners and soldering equipment into it, you'll have to do a number of repros before you can really "break even". If FF5 is the only game you want, then you're probably better off just buying it.

--Zero