RF Generation Message Board

First off we, the staff of RF Generation, would like to thank you for your interest in helping our site and it's databases grow. As you become more familiar with our community and the efforts we are engaging in to build and maintain an accurate database for everyone to use, I hope you make use of these guidelines and feel free to offer feedback and suggestions to the staff and administrators as this is an ever-evolving process.

In the next few paragraphs, our motivations behind this new policy will be explained, followed by some helpful tips afterward gathered from collectors from all over the world. The information contained here representing both staff and members of this community has been condensed and listed for your reading pleasure.

Special thanks go out to RFGen member Madir, who helped gather a lot of this information for everyone to use and without his efforts this guideline would not be possible. Also thanks go out to everyone else who contributed to the policies you see here through their feedback and suggestions as well as experience.

Thank you,
Staff of RF Generation

Policy explanation

Let me give you the short version first. As of January 1st, 2009, all European, Australian and Middle Eastern game submissions require either a part number or UPC to be reviewed by the staff. We'd prefer both as the more information the better, but if your copy is without it's packaging, the part number is more important than the UPC (barcode). Having said that, we can still use the barcode alone as well if that's all you can provide. There are some exceptions which will be explained as you read on.

Over the last couple of years we've found that as more countries have separate releases and games seem to get shifted from one country to another, a large amount of the existing European and Australian entries are mislabeled as region wide. In other cases, members simply choose their country of residence leaving out other countries that received the same copy of a particular game.

Because of the complexity of European/Australian releases, we think this will go a long way to help curb the database errors for PAL/SECAM games. I'll also point out that the submission scripts will not be changed in any way. This will be monitored by the staff who review all submissions. In essence, this will be no different than how we handle hardware entries that don't have part numbers or UPCs.

There will be exceptions to this guideline. Games with no part numbers or packaging with no UPC codes will have to be a joint effort where a member posts or PMs a staff member seeking their help so their submission isn't automatically rejected. Same applies to "not for resale" or demos as well.

If your wondering what's wrong with our current system and why we need to improve it, it's that as we strive for accuracy, some of your collection lists may be affected by changing regions as we make changes to correct errors on a massive scale. Errors that we hope to curb and maybe even eliminate completely one day so our database accuracy and integrity isn't compromised. Over the last few months, several sections of the database have had new variations, split entries, scans moved and information from scans used to populate game entries. In the process, several games have had their regions changed to reflect that information possibly affecting one's collection list. Without this vital information (part/UPC) for new submissions, there is a greater chance it'll be changed in the future to a region not representative of your own. So accurate information that can be used to verify a title's origin is of the highest priority.

Here's a fine example:

Alex Rider: Stormbreaker (ALXP) (http://www.rfgeneration.com/cgi-bin/getinfo.pl?ID=E-087-S-00550-A)

and

Alex Rider: Stormbreaker (ALXX) (http://www.rfgeneration.com/cgi-bin/getinfo.pl?ID=E-087-S-00551-A)

As you can see from the part numbers, they are not duplicates and both can be found in the same country. If we didn't bring in this new policy, members would be constantly editing entries because they think the region or part number or even UPC is incorrect. This ensures that the right entry for the right person is there for all collectors and that scans are properly used.

We're also sympathetic to the fact that most members may not know the details and nuances that can make a game region-wide or from a single country. Simply selecting your home country more often than not leads to problems because many games are sold in more than one country at the same time and with the exact same packaging. You can probably appreciate how frustrating that would be to someone with the exact same game who can't yet add it to their collection because the region is incorrect or missing a country or two.

The staff have extensive experience and know how to spot the small details such as labels, ratings, part numbers, region flags etc that all come together in a variety of combinations to form a release within a certain sub-region. We are here to help you make sure your entries are as accurate as possible and reflect the game you currently have in your collection. We're not perfect and will still make mistakes from time to time, but we hope we can minimize these database errors with your help. All we ask of the members is that you provide as detailed submissions as you can so we have more information to research each title case by case. I also hope that you bear with us as this may slow down submission approval a bit as more time per title is needed for research.

Items to look for when identifying proper region/countries

Nintendo DS part numbers:

XXX-XXX-NOE - Germany
XXX-XXX-UKV - United Kingdom
XXX-XXX-FHUG - Germany / Netherlands / France / UK
XXX-XXX-SCN - Sweden / Norway / Denmark
XXX-XXX-EUR - UK / Italy / Spain (possibly others)

Nintendo NES part numbers:

XXX-XX-ITA - Italy
XXX-XX-FRA - France
XXX-XX-SCN - Scandinavia (Sweden, Norway, Denmark)
XXX-XX-UKV - United Kingdom
XXX-XX-EEC - Belgium, France, Germany, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands

Other Nintendo part numbers:

FAH - France/Netherlands
HOL -  Netherlands
FR - France
ITA - Italy
SWD - Schweden
FRG -  France/Germany

Sega Master System, Saturn and Dreamcast part numbers:

And the following for Master System Games: if a game Part# ends with something like
-XX then XX identifies the region. This is often used for limited editions (e.g. Olympic Gold, World Cup USA '94 or Disney-Games Jungle Book, Lion King)

-50 regionwide
-18 Germany
-09 France
-06 Spain
-13 Italy
-05 UK

Philips CDi part numbers:

Normally European CD-i games start with 81x. While some of these haven't been confirmed, it's a good starting point to use in the meantime.
 
810 - Europe
811 - UK
812 - France
813 - Germany
814 - Netherlands
815 - ??
816 - Spain
817 - ??
818 - ??
819 - ?? (possibly regionwide)

Have attention because there are some strange games like this:
http://www.rfgeneration.c...nfo.pl?ID=E-049-S-00020-A

You see an 814 on the back cover but all of the text is in English. Have a look at the CD and read the copyright information as they will give you a hint. In most cases the back cover or manual language should fit the codes from above. US games starts with 310... and there are some third party publishers with their own part numbers. A demo CD has the same code as the full version.

Other tips for various systems

 - Look for country flags on the back of boxes. If a box has multiple flags, hold the "Ctrl" key down while selecting the region in the submission script and highlight the ones that apply.

 - Some Sony games (PS1, PS2, PS3, PSP) use different SLES/ULES/BLES part numbers for different versions of the same game. So if your number doesn't match the one that exists in a European region-wide entry in the database, it's most likely a variation needing it's own entry.

Exceptions and other considerations

• Hardware from anywhere worldwide stills requires part and/or UPCs as they always have.

• Downloadable titles because they have no physical presence or packaging, are exempt from this policy.

• If a game has an ISBN number, you can submit that as the part number as well. If it has both, choose the part number first. You can also add ISBN numbers as game trivia with a page edit when a part number is already present.

• If you have demos, "Not for Resale" titles or regular games that have no part numbers, ISBNs or UPCs, you can post your intention to submit a scan/photo in the forum or by PMing a staff member. If that isn't possible either, give as many details as possible so the staff can try to add the game manually. Keep in mind that this can be a slow process as opposed to having info or photos on hand.

I'm very glad this new movement for the European database is set in motion. :)

Requiring Part Numbers/UPC's is a very good idea because otherwise one can only guess what variation of a game is being submitted.

While I think in principal this is a good idea I think it severely limits the growth of the databases to only the games the very few European members have or buy.
I know that accuracy and completeness is the goal but why can’t countries or other versions be added later once the game has been added to the list?

Aded later? I'm not sure what you mean. Mostly every European release has specific country or countries to it's credit. How many members realize the difference between a  part number with  XXX-XXX-EUR versus a XXX-XXX-UKV? Or that both can be sold in the same country. The difference being most of the time UKV means United Kingdom while EUR means Italy, Spain and UK. So while someone from the UK may submit that game as a UK release because they bought it in London, it may in fact be a EUR title in which case all three countries show in the search results and on the game page. Without that part number or UPC, we'd end up with 3 separate entries for the exact same game sharing the same info and the same scans, two of them being needless duplicates skewing the database numbers.

So we're hoping to minimize these errors before it becomes so widespread the entire European section becomes unreliable from a resource and checklist standpoint.

Realistically, one has to skim over part numbers and UPCs anyway when they submit games because how are they otherwise finding the proper info for their title if they aren't using the copy that's in their hands? ;)

Tan is right, plus I don't see the point of adding games to the database that nobody owns.

Sure, you could copy paste a list of games from wikipedia into the database but without specific information like Part Numbers/UPCs, those entries are pretty much worthless in my opinion.

Requiring either Part Number or UPC seems completely natural to me. I often see entries in the European database that have only the minimum of fields filled in and I can't help but think these people are lazy and want to get their submissions over with as quickly as possible.
That or they are doing submissions without their games in their hands, which is equally bad anyway. ;)

If anyone is still unsure of why this is necessary, here's a fine example just added to the database today:

http://www.rfgeneration.com/cgi-bin/getinfo.pl?ID=E-087-S-00550-A&

and

http://www.rfgeneration.com/cgi-bin/getinfo.pl?ID=E-087-S-00551-A

As you can see from the part numbers, they are not duplicates and both can be found in the same country. If we didn't bring in this new policy, members would be constantly editing entries because they think the region or part number or even UPC is incorrect. This ensures that the right entry for the right person is there for all collectors and that scans are properly used.

2nd draft is completed, please take a look:

http://www.rfgeneration.com/PHP/about.php?action=policies;id=12

It looks very good Tan, nice work!


I've spotted a couple of things that could use improvement:

1. You've underlined the title "Items to look for when identifying proper region/countries:" in black, while the other two titles are underlined in red.
2. I think it's best to avoid putting ":" in titles, I'm not entirely sure whether you're allowed to put them there though.
3.
This should maybe be explained a bit better, I think new members will be a bit confused.

1. Thanks, I missed that one somehow with all the mess of code before and after the title. :P

2. I only removed them because I didn't use them in my other published guidelines, but really I could care less if it was a grammatical taboo or not. I'm more concerned about getting the message across not how formal it is.

3. I really don't think it needs more explanation than that. I don't want the guidelines to sound like I'm patronizing everyone by treating them like idiots. If someone can't grasp the use of the Ctrl key explained in that fashion, they really have no business using the scripts at all.

Good point.

The page looks better with the title underlinings being consistent. :)

Oh, but I see you still left the ":" at the "Special Notes" title. :P

I changed it to please your sensibilities, but it may not be the final title of that section yet so I didn't bother the first time around. It is after all, only the 2nd draft.

I'm not trying to criticize your work, Tan.

Getting the message across is (and always should be) priority #1, but making a page look somewhat professional by keeping it consistent never hurts. :)

Yes I realize that, this is in fact my 8th or so guideline I've worked on this year. What I'm saying is, the appearance isn't important until Dec. 31st at 11:59pm and I'd rather not spend valuable time fixing minor appearance issues with possibly redundant consequences is all. That is after all, the point of rough drafts. ;)

What I want is more feedback about the content, as it affects hundreds of members, every member of staff and thousands of future database entries. I don't want people complaining on January 2nd that there are issues they have with these guidelines when they had weeks of advance warning and plenty of opportunity to have their say.

3rd draft is completed. The third section has been expanded and an example of the intended benefit to the database was inserted into the "Policy explanation". :)

Nice, and a good example you picked out as well. :)

Thanks, I suspect that as we get the ball rolling we'll be seeing a lot of entries like those. I was fortunate that one came along when it did to suit my purpose.

You mean like this?

http://www.rfgeneration.com/PHP/about.php?action=policies

In the About tab menu called Policies and Guidelines. Hopefully everyone is paying attention to the forums, global announcements at the top of each sub-forum and policy pages with their edited dates. If not then perhaps we'll have to make them even more pronounced and visible somehow. The entire database, submission system and smooth operation of both rely on members using them.

Oh, i haven't checked this page before posting. Ok so maybe somewhere on this page there is space for a kind of Part# guide beside the region information.

^ That's fantastic Madir, congrats!!! :D

The new policy takes effect tomorrow folks so please look over the new policy before your next submission or in the staff's case, approval.

http://www.rfgeneration.com/PHP/about.php?action=policies;id=12

 :)

^ It's looking good, Tan!