RF Generation Message Board

I hear a lot about the things Bush did.
He supposedly cut taxes for the rich. He started 2 wars, both with very dubious reasons, which have resulted in the death of at least a thousand us soldiers and a lot more other people. He lied about the reasons to start these wars. And after all this time, the 'threat of terror' still isn't lower.

But for some reason he's still very popular. About half of the people in the USA would vote for him in the next elections. So I was wondering, what good things did Bush do since he became president?

This is a serious question and I'm not trying to start flame wars or anything. I'm just very curious, because I can't remember ever having heard something positive he did. Something that made the life of the average american easier, something that made the world a better place.

To be honest, I don't know if he's done anything good for the Average American.  If I were old enough to vote this November I wouldn't vote for him.  

A big part of American politics is political party.  Many of the people you mentioned that will vote for Bush in the upcoming election will do so for no other reason than that he is a Republican and they are Republicans.  It's quite stupid, really.  This hasn't been getting a lot of press, but Bush signed a bill to outlaw partial birth abortions.  MANY people decide who to vote for in a presidential election based on nothing more than what their stance on abortion is.  Again, this is a pretty narrow view of the political process.

Another thing you have to remember is that Americans in general are stupid.  Bush tells them that the enemy has attacked us, and we MUST invade Iraq.  Many people here don't actually know where Iraq is, but if the President says we have to get those evil heathan towel-heads, we had better.  (I hope you can read my sarcasm.)  Take a look at the article I've attached.  People just don't have any idea what is going on.  Name an operation "Operation Iraqi Freedom" and people will think that's actually the objective.  The U.S. isn't some lovey dovey humanitarian megagiant.  If you really need me to come up with a list of why, I can, but that is rather unnecessary.

Yesyes, he's evil, I know.

But you're saying he hasn't done anything to improve the USA?

I'm trying to think of something, but I don't really see much.  He could have definitely done worse, but I don't see much he did right.  You knew that was my position already.  My post was more to get across the point that many Americans don't actually vote based on the good or bad things a candidate does - it's often simply what party they are or their stance on a single issue.

The original title was "Operation Iraqi Liberation" or OIL for short.  

Oh, and everything in American politics is about money, plain and simple.  

And most of the voters dont know jack about the person they are voting for, most just vote as their parents do.

I don't think Bush has done anything great.  He has pretty much just kept the status quo as far as everyday American life is concerned.  The upcoming election has me a little concerned though.  I don't like either candidate enough to vote for them.  

Also it is hard to really find much that Bush has done well because his detractors are much more vocal than his supporters.  I'm not trying to say that there is some Anti-Bush conspiracy, but when Michael Moore is making huge movies about what a dick you are, it's a little hard to get press for creating 100 new jobs in southern Oklahoma.  I almost hope Bush doesn't get re-elected so I don't have to hear all of these whiny celebrities talk about how evil he is constantly.

You can argue that the war in Iraq is for dubious reasons and that's your opinion, but never, ever, ever, ever insult the people of this country by implying that there are any reasons for the Afghan war other than this one.

Well, Afghanistan didn't attack those towers, Al quada did. That makes it at least a little dubious to attack Afghanistan. Especially because it was quite obvious that attacking Afghanistan wouldn't mean the end of al quada.

Besides, the "war" in Afghanistan has been on the back-burner for years now.  I didn't agree with what Bush did there in the first place, but the fact that he used Americans' ignorance and anger to turn the focus to Iraq pisses me off the most.

And Al Queda was in league with (if not the same body as) the Taliban (the governing body of Afghanistan). Even if you disagree with this, you still cannot disagree that most of Al Queda's forces were located in Afghanistan. The Taliban would not allow us to enter Afghanistan to get them, thus an invasion was the only option.

The bottom line is, you need to stop. There is a difference between speaking your opinion and just sounding like an idiot. If you modify your original post to say "1 war" I might forgive you for this heresy, but you still have lost all credibility on all things forever to me, and to anyone who agrees with me. You will probably never gain that back.

Continue to speak nonsense and I will eventually get you, even if I have to swim.

Oh no! I lost all credibility from a right wing extremist! He doesn't take me serious anymore! Whatever will I do, now life has last all meaning!?!?



And yes, most of al quada was located in Afghanistan, but it was still dubious to just attack them. Just look at how many countries disagreed with it before you started. But let's get back to the subject of this thread, you think attacking Afghanistan was one of the good things Bush did, I assume?

That's right. Your life has "last all meaning". Apparently, you also enjoy the oppression and execution of women (a major part of the Taliban regime) for petty religious reasons. Bigoted, religious extemists like you make me sick.  Furthermore, no matter how many countries disagreed with the invasion of Afghanistan, the list of countries that disagreed with the Taliban's invasion of America is much, much longer.

If you still see fit to speak stupidity, then I challenge you to this simple exercise; Come up with a valid and realistic plan for eradicating Al Queda and the Taliban, which does not involve the invasion of ANY country. If your next post in this thread is anything other than such a plan, all you have done is prove that you are only fit to criticize, without offering any valid contribution.

Was this not supposed to turn into flaming?

Anyways bitching about the war is useless. And to be honest Arr (not to insult), you are not from this country thus most (not all) people dont care what you're opinion of us is. Everyone in the US was Gung-Ho for the wars and now they are stepping back and saying. "wow i really should have thought more about it. We have tons of our people dieing over there."

And if you were someone who said anything that could be misconstrued against the government after 9 11 you where unpatriotic and usually wer physically or indirectly attacked.

We went to war and no amount of saying it was wrong is going to get us out of there faster, this is going to be like another Vietnam. (Should we send Kerry over to patrol?)

I wouldn't say invading Afghanistan has eradicated Al Quada, so it's not like that worked. It seems that it only made a lot more people angry at the USA.  But if you want to continue jabbering about this, feel free to open a new topic. It's not the point of discussion here.

Hmm. That sure looks like more criticism without any actual valid contribution.

It's called a typo.  Grow up.  The guy speaks better English than most of the poeple on this board, and until you can both speak another language half as well as he can AND avoid all typos, shut up about things like this.



WHAT?!?!!?!  He never said anything REMOTELY close to this.



al Quaeda.



That's not even what this thread is about.  Maybe you should learn to stay on topic.



That's why almost every nation in the world has rebelled against America at one time or another.  People in this country forget about this little thing called the world.



That's incorrect.  I opposed the war from day one.

I know this and i am 16 its too bad people who are supposed to make the tough decisions dont'. That is also why i added the stuff in parentheses. But i dont agree with what Kerry said about "passing the global test".


I wasnt completly apposed to it. What we say doesnt really matter because it wasn't us who made the decision to go to war is it?

Leon is definately a anarchist. But he helped me out with something once(dont remember what) so i will keep off his case.
I will try to refrain from posting here. Beacause i will follow where ever the conversation leads.
Just for future referance if you talk anything politics it never stays on topic. ;)

1. Low, but still worth picking on.
2. He didn't say anything about opposing the Taliban. In fact, he's speaking for it most of the time.
3. The Taliban is just what Al Qaida call themselves when they don't want to sound like terrorists. If it makes you feel better, I will modify that sentence so it says "Al Qaida" rather than "Taliban". My words will retain the exact same meaning either way, so why did you even bother?
4. You can't come up with an answer either.

I would also like to address the fact that people are crying flamer and complaining that this is off-topic. This is not off-topic. When someone starts a thread under the guise of asking an unbiased question, and then spends the entire first paragraph of their first post insulting the thing they are asking the question about, then they are only getting what they had coming. What's amazing is that anyone would complain about it. That's as childish as crying "I'm bulletproof" while playing Cops and Robbers.

Bla bla bla.
Still waiting for the accused to stand up for HIMSELF.

Leon - stating facts is not the same thing as insulting, and it means something significant for you to take it as such.

Now, why is it there is always at least one person who doesn't simply take a disagreeing point of view, but resorts to calling someone a "bigot " and "religious fanatic" for no apparent reason?  I've been in many similar discussions on many different boards that start out innocent, until someone gets VERY offended (as Leon here has) and turns it into something bigger.

From a Canadian point of view, Bush did (and is doing) something very wrong.  The intent is fine, but how he is going about it.... well, a lot of people (including Americans) don't agree with.  I'm against it too - I think Bush is an idiot, and a very dangerous idiot.

One thing that's important to keep in mind is that nobody is 100% evil.  I'm sure Bin Laden enjoys doing some of the same things you do - like eating tastey food, enjoying a sunrise, etc.  He happens to be a fanatic, and think the US is inherently evil for some reason.  Now he's viewing you the same way you view him.  Black and white - good or evil.  You think you are good, and Bin Laden is evil.  Bin Laden thinks he is good, and you are evil.  What we have here is a difference of opinion, on a big violent scale.  People have been killed brutally on both sides, the only difference is who started it.

Anyway, I think accusing Arrr of being a Taliban cooperator is a little crazy, don't you think?

OD

That's a nifty 5th grade level philosophical dispute you bring up there, but ultimately I don't care about "good" or "evil" those aren't a part of my way of thinking. I don't care about the other guy's point of view either. I don't care who started it. I care about ending it, with my side coming out on top. This is all that matters.

This is way out of hand.  The insults need to stop, because I don't want to have to ban anyone here.  This thread is hereby LOCKED.