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Title: Manhunt 2 Denied UK and Irish Release Post by: James on June 19, 2007, 10:41:47 AM http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=166215
Quote The BBFC has rejected Manhunt 2 on PS2 and Wii, the ratings board has revealed, meaning that the sequel "cannot be legally supplied anywhere in the UK". We've called Rockstar several times but have yet been unable to contact anyone. According to the BBFC, the decision to refuse the game a rating was taken by the Director and the Presidential Team of Sir Quentin Thomas, Lord Taylor of Warwick and Janet Lewis-Jones. Under the terms of the Video Recordings Act, distributors have the right to appeal the Board's decision. David Cooke, Director of the BBFC said: "Rejecting a work is a very serious action and one which we do not take lightly. Where possible we try to consider cuts or, in the case of games, modifications which remove the material which contravenes the Board's published Guidelines. In the case of Manhunt 2 this has not been possible. Manhunt 2 is distinguishable from recent high-end video games by its unremitting bleakness and callousness of tone in an overall game context which constantly encourages visceral killing with exceptionally little alleviation or distancing. There is sustained and cumulative casual sadism in the way in which these killings are committed, and encouraged, in the game. "Although the difference should not be exaggerated the fact of the game's unrelenting focus on stalking and brutal slaying and the sheer lack of alternative pleasures on offer to the gamer, together with the different overall narrative context, contribute towards differentiating this submission from the original Manhunt game. That work was classified '18' in 2003, before the BBFC's recent games research had been undertaken, but was already at the very top end of what the Board judged to be acceptable at that category. "Against this background, the Board's carefully considered view is that to issue a certificate to Manhunt 2, on either platform, would involve a range of unjustifiable harm risks, to both adults and minors, within the terms of the Video Recordings Act, and accordingly that its availability, even if statutorily confined to adults, would be unacceptable to the public." Check back for updates this afternoon but be sure to join the debate below. Update: NGamer magazine has reviewed the Wii version, giving it 92%. Hit this link to read exclusive excerpts. Update out Update 2: The Irish Film Censor's Office has also banned the release of Manhunt 2. "A prohibition order has been made by IFCO in relation to the video game Manhunt 2. The Order was made on 18th June 2007 under Sec 7 (1) (b) of the Video Recordings Act 1989 which refers to 'acts of gross violence or cruelty (including mutilation and torture)'. "IFCO recognizes that in certain films, DVDs and video games, strong graphic violence may be a justifiable element within the overall context of the work. However, in the case of Manhunt 2, IFCO believes that there is no such context, and the level of gross, unrelenting and gratuitous violence is unacceptable." Update 2 out That's the only videogame I can think of that's been flat out denied release here. I can think of some games that have had to be edited in order to be released, but none that weren't allowed a release at all. I didn't really enjoy the first Manhunt anyway, so it's not a big loss personally. Before we get a string of posts saying "Videogames don't cause violent behaviour", you should realise violent crime in the UK is going up and violent videogames add to the culture of it all. They may not be a direct cause of violent behaviour but it does contribute in a way. I think censorship is good to a certain degree. Where does the line get drawn, though? How is wilfully controlling a fictional character to brutally kill another any different to a bit of the ol' fictional child molestation? It's all against the law and all morally wrong. I'm not entirely against violent games because after all, it's not real. But there are always some people who need to be accounted for and that's why we have censorship. Title: Re: Manhunt 2 Denied UK and Irish Release Post by: Tan on June 19, 2007, 11:20:04 AM Tthere's fantasy and imagination in games but this is just an excuse to commit brutality for entertainment value. It's like making a date rape expansion for "The Sims", no creative, artistic value to it whatsoever and Rockstar knows it.
Using the wii's controls for a game like this is just like choking and tearing at someone with your bare hands. I can think of better ways to immerse myself with hand-on gameplay than that. Maybe in the third one they'll promote spousal abuse and sexual assault. Maybe even an in-game ad about the importance of beating your kids into submission when they misbehave. ::) I can't help to think how people will view the wii after this game comes out. The grotesque nature of the killings with the gore, cries for mercy and massive amounts of blood, I just don't get how that's entertaining. The fact that there is a sequel and a market for this stuff is disturbing enough without seeing a company happily cater to it. There's an obvious reason snuff films are illegal. Is this the new medium to sidestep those pesky laws and morality issues? Sure changes the "family fun" images doesn't it? Cuddle up with your significant other or your grandparents and rip someone's eye out. Bring some friends over and beat someone with a crowbar while they beg for mercy in full surround sound until they are just a greasy wet spot on the floor. Good times, good times LOL. You Nintendo Wii owners wanted 3rd party support, well here it is, enjoy. Title: Re: Manhunt 2 Denied UK and Irish Release Post by: Tynstar on June 19, 2007, 12:05:32 PM You have some good points Keith but still why not give it the highest rating possible so hardly any stores can carry it? At least that way it is still released.
Title: Re: Manhunt 2 Denied UK and Irish Release Post by: James on June 19, 2007, 12:15:22 PM You have some good points Keith but still why not give it the highest rating possible so hardly any stores can carry it? The highest rating we have is "18" for 18 years old. Just like GTA, Gears of War, Dead Rising etc. And yet I see them in every shop selling games. Age ratings don't change whether a shop can sell it or not. Title: Re: Manhunt 2 Denied UK and Irish Release Post by: Tynstar on June 19, 2007, 12:18:52 PM You have some good points Keith but still why not give it the highest rating possible so hardly any stores can carry it? The highest rating we have is "18" for 18 years old. Just like GTA, Gears of War, Dead Rising etc. And yet I see them in every shop selling games. Age ratings don't change whether a shop can sell it or not. I see. Over here we have an "AO" rating and if a game gets that hardly any stores will carry it. Title: Re: Manhunt 2 Denied UK and Irish Release Post by: Tan on June 19, 2007, 12:21:13 PM You have some good points Keith but still why not give it the highest rating possible so hardly any stores can carry it? Should snuff films be sold in stores as long as they have a "Adults Only" rating? Title: Re: Manhunt 2 Denied UK and Irish Release Post by: Tynstar on June 19, 2007, 12:23:03 PM You have some good points Keith but still why not give it the highest rating possible so hardly any stores can carry it? Should snuff films be sold in stores as long as they have a "Adults Only" rating? http://imdb.com/title/tt0134273/ Title: Re: Manhunt 2 Denied UK and Irish Release Post by: Tan on June 19, 2007, 12:27:18 PM You have some good points Keith but still why not give it the highest rating possible so hardly any stores can carry it? Should snuff films be sold in stores as long as they have a "Adults Only" rating? http://imdb.com/title/tt0134273/ That's a film about snuff films not a live taped killing or a murder simulator, hence it's "R" rating. :P Title: Re: Manhunt 2 Denied UK and Irish Release Post by: Tynstar on June 19, 2007, 12:31:37 PM True enough but is a video game is real? How can you compare the two?
You want to compare murdering someone and filming it with murdering people in a video game. Title: Re: Manhunt 2 Denied UK and Irish Release Post by: Tan on June 19, 2007, 12:36:30 PM True enough but is a video game is real? How can you compare the two? You want to compare murdering someone and filming it with murdering people in a video game. There's a difference between playing Call of Duty and winning the war versus murdering for enjoyment or torture for the entertainment of yourself and others. I guess it's all in the approach. Would burnout be the same if you had to do missions where you ran down school children crossing the street or Command and Conquer if you had to commit genocide towards a group of civilians on top of warfare? Would they still be respectable tasteful games? I really think there are limits to free speech and expression using media. Title: Re: Manhunt 2 Denied UK and Irish Release Post by: Tan on June 19, 2007, 12:42:57 PM Especially given the fact that the Wii is very hands on. You'll be sticking your arms out to choke someone to death, or swinging a baseball bat or stabbing with a knife. Reach out and twist your wrist with the nunchuk as you gore someone's eye out. Imagine that in your living room. :P
Feel the rumble as the blade bounces off someone's skull lol Title: Re: Manhunt 2 Denied UK and Irish Release Post by: Tynstar on June 19, 2007, 12:51:18 PM Of course they wouldn't be as good but it is MY choice to play them. I agree with you Rockstar is making this game just to push buttons. This game is bad for video games IMO. But I don't want my government to tell me if I can buy it or not.
Title: Re: Manhunt 2 Denied UK and Irish Release Post by: Tan on June 19, 2007, 12:59:27 PM I agree that the governement shouldn't be involved. The games industry itself should tend to these things, discourage projects like this from starting a new gaming trend that explores the darkest parts of our humanity. Not sure how but it should be a artistic agreement amongst developers. If even one of these games get's into the hands on children on the wii the youtube vids of it will be worse than anything anyone has ever seen, as bad as kids in Iraq carrying AK's.
At least the kids in Iraq are fighting for something, not just killing for pleasure and recreation. Title: Re: Manhunt 2 Denied UK and Irish Release Post by: Tynstar on June 19, 2007, 01:07:13 PM I agree with you but all the controversy will help sell the game. A great example of that are the adult games for the 2600 they didn't sell well at all. Then they released Custer's Revenge and it had a lot of controversy and it sold 2-3 times more then the other games.
Title: Re: Manhunt 2 Denied UK and Irish Release Post by: Tan on June 19, 2007, 01:14:40 PM I have no doubt it will sell well, and that's really sad. It's been my experience that mostly teens played the first one regardless of rating. It could actually push Wii's into the hands of Playstation fans.
Use the same engine, no need for a serious story or character backgrounds, just come up with some waggle and people will be talking about it right up to when GTA comes out. Title: Re: Manhunt 2 Denied UK and Irish Release Post by: Izret101 on June 19, 2007, 02:22:10 PM The age restrictions are their for a reason.
I can't say i agree with baning the game from being released but Euro rating systems are much more strict than US. Though i could have sworn in Ireland at least they could have not sent the game to the rating board and still tried to sell it. But without the rating VERY few stores will carry the game. The first manhunt almost didn't get released their anyways so this isn't much of a surprise to me. Title: Re: Manhunt 2 Denied UK and Irish Release Post by: Tondog on June 19, 2007, 08:30:40 PM Manhunt 2 has received an AO rating from the ESRB. I just posted a news story about it.
http://www.rfgeneration.com/news/modern-gaming/manhunt-2-gets-an-esrb-rating-of-ao-for-adults-only-56.php Title: Re: Manhunt 2 Denied UK and Irish Release Post by: TraderJake on June 19, 2007, 08:51:00 PM I was going to post that, but instead I was moving guidelines to general discussion, which by the way all of you should look at in The Thinktank. These guidelines will shape the future of submissions for RF Generation.
Title: Re: Manhunt 2 Denied UK and Irish Release Post by: Hydrobond on June 19, 2007, 08:54:20 PM I still do not understand why people try to correlate violence with video games. The following is proof positive that violent crime has dropped since violent video games were released. I do not claim that the drop in violence was caused by people playing violent video games. It is, however, obvious to me that violent games are not a source of violent crime.
[img width=600 height=480]http://www.worldcoast.ca/files/images/violentgames.preview.jpg[/img] The Source (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/tables/viortrdtab.htm) Title: Re: Manhunt 2 Denied UK and Irish Release Post by: Tondog on June 19, 2007, 08:55:42 PM I must say that's the best picture I've seen in some time.
Title: Re: Manhunt 2 Denied UK and Irish Release Post by: Cobra on June 20, 2007, 04:02:09 AM Hey Postal 2, that was a good laugh.
Honestly I don't think games should be band. Instead stupid parent's should learn to read and do maths so when their kid is say 14 a game rated R 18+ = DON'T BUY IT FOR THEM. I would go on and continue to say it is as stupid as buying your 14 year old smokes, but sadly we have parents stupid enough to do that to :( Title: Re: Manhunt 2 Denied UK and Irish Release Post by: hXd on June 20, 2007, 10:33:35 AM I think this is another move from the government and the ESRB to ruin video games for the consumers.
Although I do also agree that violence shouldn't be made easily accessible to kids that are like, 7-12, but once you get to 13 and older, you can pretty much tell the difference between fantasy and reality, and if you don't, then there's something wrong with you, not the people making the games. Title: Re: Manhunt 2 Denied UK and Irish Release Post by: The Metamorphosing Leon on June 20, 2007, 11:11:14 AM Yep, vote Libertarian.
Title: Re: Manhunt 2 Denied UK and Irish Release Post by: Tan on June 20, 2007, 05:28:39 PM http://kotaku.com/gaming/original/nintendo-nixes-ao-manhunt-270741.php
Title: Re: Manhunt 2 Denied UK and Irish Release Post by: The Metamorphosing Leon on June 21, 2007, 12:00:38 AM that's retarded, nintendo could make oodles from the hentai market.
Title: Re: Manhunt 2 Denied UK and Irish Release Post by: Cobra on June 21, 2007, 04:22:17 AM that's retarded, nintendo could make oodles from the hentai market. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:I'm sure they are missing out on a huge Japanese market right there, I mean with the added interactivity with the Wiimote, I'm sure the developers are practically clawing at Nintendo's door. Title: Re: Manhunt 2 Denied UK and Irish Release Post by: DarthKur on June 21, 2007, 09:10:41 AM Personally it's inconsequential whether this game sees the light of day since I only use retro systems but it does anger me since I really do loathe censorship in any form. This sort of thing smacks of fascism and Big Brother. All semantics aside about it being an immoral slaughter fest it still takes the ability the chose out of peoples hands. Should movies like Dawn of the Dead and Texas Chainsaw Massacre be banned on account of being so violently oriented? How about Stephen King's books? Should there be a huge gathering in the town square where everything "bad" is heaped upon a blazing bonfire all the wile cheering self righteous slogans and chants?
I look at in the same fashion as the subject of pornography, which I do not patronize and find distasteful, but if you don't like it then don't buy it. Just don't force your opinion on everyone else and take the decision away from them. Title: Re: Manhunt 2 Denied UK and Irish Release Post by: Tan on June 21, 2007, 10:05:33 AM This is nothing more than Nintendo or Sony just protecting their own collective asses that's all. We live in an age of ambulance chasing and sympathy lawsuits, this removes the slightest chance that someone could file a lawsuit or tarnish the images of the machines based on ignorance.
They know as well as the ESRB does the amount of people that follow the ratings system is a much lower % than it should be. It's no different than guns, cars, movies or music. They feel the need to protect the minority by restrictng the majority. The truth is if "the establishment" didn't do it, no one would. How many members here with kids would let them play it? This is for you, so when they go over to a friends house, they aren't playing it anyway. Besides I'm sure this is just a publicity stunt. They probably already have the second "M" rated version ready for approval, just waiting to unleash it when they think no one will suspect their ploy.. It will sell more than the first one did, because people among many reasons, will buy it just for curiousity to see what all the fuss was about. Title: Re: Manhunt 2 Denied UK and Irish Release Post by: captain_nintendo on June 21, 2007, 11:00:48 AM How many members here with kids would let them play it? This is for you, so when they go over to a friends house, they aren't playing it anyway. I know I wouldn't let my kid play it now (he's 6). But at 16 or 17 I would hope he knows the difference between a game and reality. Title: Re: Manhunt 2 Denied UK and Irish Release Post by: captain_nintendo on June 22, 2007, 09:45:42 AM I guess Rockstar suspends release of 'Manhunt 2' (http://technology.canoe.ca/2007/06/21/4279679-ap.html)
Thoughts? Another article states "They will probably spend $1 million or so to rework the game" (http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=16597) Title: Re: Manhunt 2 Denied UK and Irish Release Post by: Izret101 on June 22, 2007, 01:08:47 PM Rediculous.
I'll use action replay to play the AO version and throw vids online so that the game be a multimillion dollar investigation headed by Hillary into the Rockstar and the ESRB... again Title: Re: Manhunt 2 Denied UK and Irish Release Post by: Tynstar on June 22, 2007, 03:11:01 PM Thanks again Rockstar for putting video games in the spot light a bad way again.
Title: Re: Manhunt 2 Denied UK and Irish Release Post by: Tondog on June 22, 2007, 05:16:56 PM Did you know Rockstar has only published 2 games that are rated E? Yup. Surfing H3O and Table Tennis.
Title: Re: Manhunt 2 Denied UK and Irish Release Post by: The Metamorphosing Leon on June 25, 2007, 11:02:01 PM Fucking socialists are gonna ruin this game. I hope they leave it AO in the states.
Title: Re: Manhunt 2 Denied UK and Irish Release Post by: TraderJake on June 26, 2007, 08:47:38 PM Uh.... the game won't release on either system if it maintains the AO rating.
Title: Re: Manhunt 2 Denied UK and Irish Release Post by: The Metamorphosing Leon on June 26, 2007, 11:46:53 PM Put it on 360, they'll earn even more cred amongst older gamers.
Title: Re: Manhunt 2 Denied UK and Irish Release Post by: phoenix1967 on June 27, 2007, 09:09:42 AM Put it on 360, they'll earn even more cred amongst older gamers. :o. Who are you and what have you done with Leon? Title: Re: Manhunt 2 Denied UK and Irish Release Post by: Tondog on June 27, 2007, 01:38:05 PM LEON! I am shocked and appalled at your comments! :D
Anyways, the thing about putting it on 360 is that the game was not even intended for 360. Rockstar made the game specifically for Wii, PS2, and PSP. They could do a port of it to 360, but it would have shoddy graphics (as it was made for systems with way less power) and might get knocked by 360 owners for that. Title: Re: Manhunt 2 Denied UK and Irish Release Post by: The Metamorphosing Leon on June 27, 2007, 09:49:17 PM Fuck console wars, freedom of speech is more important. 360 is still an outdated pile of crap.
Title: Re: Manhunt 2 Denied UK and Irish Release Post by: Tondog on August 24, 2007, 01:11:03 PM The game is now rated M and is coming out in October...
http://www.rfgeneration.com/news/modern-gaming/Manhunt-2-Now-Rated-M-For-Mature-223.php |