RF Generation Message Board

I've put a PC together on www.scan.co.uk

Gigabyte DS3 motherboard
1GB Corsair DDR2 PC5300
Core2Duo E6300
ATX Case which "looks" nice. i.e. not full of LEDs.
PCI IDE RAID controller to use my current IDE HDDs.


I don't know what graphics card to go for, though. I was thinking of an XFX 7900GS 256MB.
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=499273

I also need a PSU but don't know what rating I would need. How do I work that out?

It's all at about £450 without the PSU at the moment.

I would highly recommend getting 2GB of ram at this point.  If you are planning on running Vista (64-bit), then just the OS will eat up a lot of the gig. 

As far as power supply, get a name brand one.  The voltages from a brand name PSU are generally closer to spec, you get more ripple with a cheaper PSU.  The PSU in my little case is about 250W and the one in my tower is 350W.  You shouldn't need more than about 300W, even if you have a ton of hard drives, which makes the name brand PSUs a little more affordable. 

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=284214

edit: And VAT sucks.

I second the 2 GB of RAM.

I was thinking 1GB would keep me going for a while, then I'd get another stick later.

I know I have to reinstall the OS when using the same HDD with new hardware. Would I be able to use the Vista Upgrade version if I use my XP hard drive? Because it's about half the price of the full Retail one.

NEVER NEVER NEVER buy an upgrade version. 

well let me rephrase that.

NEVER NEVER NEVER "upgrade" your operating system.  Always reformat and do a clean install.  I have never had a successful "upgrade".  I have tried it with Windows 98 and Windows Me.  I ended up reformatting in both cases because something didn't work correctly after the "upgrade".  I believe that the upgrade version of Vista will allow you to do a complete install, as long as you can provide a past MS OS to verify that you have the previous version.  But whatever you do, don't use the upgrade process.

Using just one stick of RAM can slow down your computer.  Well, using one stick of RAM will not allow your computer to use the "dual channel" feature, if your motherboard supports it.  When buying RAM, look for the lowest CAS timing you can afford, those will run faster.  And I still recommend getting 2GB.  If anything, get 2GB now and go cheaper on the processor.  (Since the processor is waiting on the RAM most of the time anyways, this will NOT (noticably) slow down your computer.  As long as the bus speed of the two processors is the same.)

Let me 2nd that. Operating systems have enough problems on their own. Hacking a new OS on top of older files is a recipe for disaster.

And let me 3rd the 2GB of RAM. I'm running Vista on my work laptop. For about the first week of running Vista, I was using 1GB of RAM (2 512MB sticks). I then bought 2 1GB sticks to replace them. I've noticed a HUGE improvement in how fast applications launch, as well as an overall speed increase.

Do I really need Vista, though? I'm quite happy with XP for the time being, and it would be £170 less to use the XP disc I've already got. If I keep XP for a while, wouldn't 1GB be enough to keep me going? It would certainly be an improvement over my current 512MB.

2 X 512Mb of the same stuff in my first post is the same price, so am I probably better off getting that?

Also, what's the 7900GS like? The only thing is I would need a DVI->DSub converter and I don't know what their quality is like.

One of my friends recently put a PC together and got this card:
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=378757

She's got an Abit AB9 motherboard, which is the same price but seems a bit worse than the Gigabyte DS3.

I third that and no you don't need Vista.

If you plan on getting 1GB now and 1GB later then it is in your best interest to run with only one 1GB ram module for the time being.  RAM is expensive, and having to discard the two 512MB modules seems wasteful.  So unless you have another computer that would take the 2x512 sticks, I would get the 1x1GB now and a matching stick later.

XP is a fine operating system.  I have no desire to upgrade to Vista, at least not until everything I have will work correctly.  Vista is a beast, and as it is I already turn off all the 'bells and whistles' of XP.  I don't like the idea of an OS being a resource hog itself.  

If you are planning on running Vista in the future, make sure you buy a graphics card that is Vista ready.  (The manufacturer will prolly go out of their way to make sure you know if the card is Vista ready.)  I don't recall offhand what those requirements are.  

Thanks for the help, guys.

I was reading about OS licences on another forum but they were mainly talking about Vista. Would I actually be able to use my current licence on a new machine? If I'm going to be screwed over by that I may as well get Vista.

I feel like I'm being spoon fed now, so I'll try to cut back on the questions.

I might be buying it bit by bit anyway, to spread the cost. I actually have plenty of money at the moment but all of this is still a large sum. I don't like spending too much in one go and I refuse to get credit.

I was planning on installing Vista on my home PC, but after running it at work, I'm going to wait. You're still missing driver support on some older hardware (my scanner, several HP printers at the office), as well as being a rather bloated resouce hog. I've turned off most of the exta stuff in Vista- the exception being Aero glass because it's fun :).

I guess in other words, build with hardware that is compatible w/ Vista for a future install, but right now there isn't much of a compelling reason. Also, yes, if you plan on upgrading later, just buy the single 1GB RAM stick. You'll save cash in the long run.


Are you referring to XP? Do you have the "genuine" Microsoft license sticker on your machine? If so, there shouldn't be a problem.

I post far too many half thoughts. I'll retry that:

Would I be able to use the XP Retail disc I bought a while ago to install XP on an entirely new PC having already installed it on my current PC? I probably answered that in my second post but the talk of a Vista licence being locked to the hardware threw me off.

You should be okay on that.

XP requires activation, which is tracked by Micrsoft. However, I believe that they only track each code for a short amount of time. Worst case, you'd have to call them to do a manual activation, but even that'd be a longshot. I wouldn't worry about it.

You get something like 3 question free installs on XP.  I have to call MS to activate every time I reformat my home computer.  It takes about 10 minutes but it always works.  Just be sure to tell them that you only have it installed on ONE machine.  If you tell them you have it installed on two then they will not allow you to activate.

I was talking to a friend who's in university and he said he can get Vista Retail for about £50, as a student grant thing. It may or may not be strictly legal but it's got me interested. He's going to look into it for me.

Damn, thats a rip off.
I've gotten XP from Purdue for $15, Office XP, 2003 and 2004 .Mac for $10 a piece.  If you know anyone who is a CS student, then you can prolly get it for free.  CS students at universities are able to download one copy of any Microsoft product for developmental purposes. 

I get mine for free and it is legal.

Ha!

How much is Vista to the general public over there? It's £180 here, the same as XP. I'm more than happy to pay £50 if the alternative is £180.

Edit: Forgot to mention, that's the Home version as well, not Pro.

Reet, lads. I've looked into it myself and it's actually free to download and burn to a disc but €10 for the packaged version to be delivered. However, it's non transferable and can't be traded to other people. And if you need to reinstall it you need to contact the university's program administrator for an activation key.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/academic/program/usageguide/default.aspx

Bugger.

£180 odd is an absolute rip off.

XP Pro is 139.99 with a free upgrade to Vista.  (People are saying it still cost them around $12 for shipping, which is fine by me.)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16832116175

That's OEM. I read something about OEM not getting full support from Microshaft. Something like they don't give activation keys when you want to reinstall it. If I were to go with OEM it would only be £56 for XP Home with a Vista upgrade coupon.

The way I understand it, you can reinstall it as many times as you want, but the problem is you can't move it from one computer to another. 

I have the academic version, which I thought was the same as the OEM, and I have switched (read: "upgraded") my computer numerous times, and all I have to do is call MS and tell them that it is installed on one machine only. I don't feel like finding out the differences between the two, but that is my experience.  Hell, I don't even know if the rules are the same for the US v. UK versions, the laws are different in both places so I wouldn't be surprised if the licensing changed.

After a bit of digging around I found out the only catches to OEM are:

You don't get support from MS.

You don't get the fancy box.

It's locked to the PC you install it on.

So pretty much what you said, just confirmed. But what does "no support from MS" mean? I've never needed help from them, apart from the updates which I assumed were free anyway.

That's OEM cleared up, then. I'm sure there are more questions to come. Again, thanks for all the help.

Windows sucks...

You still get all the updates.  But you can't call MS for free, basically.

I'm going to buy it all today. I only just found out the CPU comes with its own fan and heatsink. Would it be worth £15 for a different one? I don't intend to overclock anything.

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=340995

I suppose if I decide it seems a bit hot I could buy the other fan when I get my other stick of memory.

Edit: I was looking at the Today Only page on Scan.co.uk and a few of the things in my basket were on special. I've taken the Asus CPU Fan off my list, and with the special offers it's all knocked about £30 off. Not bad.


Edit2: Well there goes £556.81. Hopefully nothing bad will happen to it.

If you don't intend on overclocking then the stock heatsink should be just fine. 

Windows sucks.

Then stop using it!

I've got the same processor as you and I don't use the stock cooler, because the one I bought is supposedly more silent.

It was due for delivery today but I was emailed yesterday to say they didn't have the graphics card in stock. So after a few exchanged emails today I went for the same model but a different manufacturer for £6 less, and got a PCI Firewire card added to the bundle with no extra postage. I have to pay for the PCI Card, of course. But I was going to order it separately when I got some other stuff because the base postage cost is £6 up to a certain weight. Getting it added to this order has saved me £6.

So they're back in my good books... Except I noticed the memory I ordered is now showing as out of stock. Hopefully it's out of stock because one of the last ones was picked for my order.

Now I need to make sure dad stays home tomorrow so he can collect it. He often works from home, so staying home shouldn't be a problem for him. I don't want to miss my Thursday work, though.

I got everything today. It all went together - eventually.

I'm using a PCI adaptor to use my two old IDE hard drives because the motherboard only has one IDE connector. The two hard drives show up in CMOS but when I try installing Windows it says it can't find any hard drives. When I try installing the drivers from my CD it says to insert a floppy. I didn't get a floppy with my motherboard or the PCI adaptor. What now, other than buying a SATA hard drive?

God I hate computers. It's always something ain't it?

I'm sure it'll all work out, it'll just take hours and hours of screwing with it.

What about your old computer? Can't you get the drivers off of the CD on your old computer.

And you can put two IDE hard drives on the same IDE port. 

Two hard drives can go on one IDE port. You just need the right cable and then set the jumpers to Master and Slave.

The motherboard only has one IDE connection - I'm using it for the two optical drives, which work fine. The PCI Adaptor is so I can also use my two old hard drives.


I'm trying to work out what drivers I need. There were two folders on the PCI Adaptor CD for ATA 133 and ATA 133 RAID. The RAID one was 6mb, so I couldnt put it on the floppy. I tried the ATA 133 drivers, which showed up in the Windows installation but didn't help.

Computers hate me. :'(

I'm on my laptop at the moment.

Get a new SATA drive.

I managed to find some drivers to put on a floppy which sounded right. They installed when I tried installing Windows, but I got the same message that no hard drives could be found.

Time to get on to Scan.co.uk and ask them what I should do.

I knew it was the drivers. I was kind of stupid, though. I looked at the paper instructions as if they were saying how to install the PCI Adaptor after Windows had been installed.

It turned out they said exactly where the drivers i needed were. :dunce: I was looking in D:\ATA 133 RAID/ iTE1212/drivers/XP, or something similar, and copied the contents of /XP onto a floppy disc, which didn't work. I should have copied everything in /drivers to a floppy.

So I did that and it came up with a choice of operating systems for the driver when I installed XP. I chose the XP driver and it started installing the OS.:D

It's formatting the hard drive at the moment.

/grats :-)

I installed Windows with a couple of problems, needing a restart. Started installing some drivers then noticed the activation icon in the tray, so clicked on it and activated Windows over the internet. I finished installing the drivers then took the PC upstairs to my bedroom. When I turned it on I got a message saying there had been "significant hardware changes" and I had to reactivate it. Except I couldn't do it over the internet again. I hate telephones, so I was reluctant to call Microsoft. I dialled the number in my mobile to be by the PC but mobile networks charge different rates for toll free numbers. So I moved the PC into a room with a telephone, bit my lip and called them. It turned out to be entirely automated! So I got it reactivated with no problems. They were sneaky with their questions, though. "How many computers have you installed this copy of Windows XP on? Press 1 for two or more computers... Press 2 for one computer..."

I had installed Windows on a formatted hard drive and kept my old hard drive as a secondary one to easily transfer files. However, when I tried going into my old account folder it said access was denied. I started in safe mode and logged in as the administrator and after a bit of a poke around I changed ownership of the folder to Administrators. While I was there, I changed my old old account folder which I had been locked out of before. I got all my damn music back! I was pissed off about that before because I had to rip all my music again.

Everything's running fine now. I'm chuffed. Thanks for the help, it's been quite a learning curve for me. It's also been fun, despite the problems. ;D

I told you, it just takes hours upon hours of fiddling.

I may as well keep to one thread:

I've got the sound from my motherboard connected to my sound system by digital optical because that's the only 5.1 connection the speakers have got. I can get surround sound from DVDs (DD) but not from games (Which play in Dolby Pro Logic 2). Is there any way around that or will I have to buy a sound system with analogue connections?

I know someone who I might be able to flog my current system to for a decent amount...

Good work man!