RF Generation Message Board

Im about sick of watching the news and hearing about the democrats did this the republicans did that..Fact is all the democrats and republicans are rich and are mainly in goverment for their own benifit...wonder when or if the middle and poor classes will ever stand up and make changes..And no I dont belive the democrats are for the poor anymore than Bush isnt a oil man.

There is one universal truth in American politics.  Both parties are win oriented.  Not issue oriented.

Politics suck ass. Doesn't matter what party they are all crooks.

Yeah, it's time for a revolution against this fucking aristocracy.

At the very least it looks like change is coming. The democrats are completely insane about everything and the Republicans are becoming based more and more on social and religious issues which are leading to even bigger government which we sure as hell shouldn't want.

True politics have become null and void as far as the Dems and Reps are concerned, it's all abortion this and gay that. It is indeed all about the winning, as SFS said.

But in the next couple of years I believe another party will rise, I don't know what it's goals will be, I can only hope it's the libertarians.

why?  so there can be no corporate regulation, and we can return to the gilded age?

I wish things would just collapse, it'd be so much more exciting.

But anyways, if we have the same structure of Government as we currently have, here's what I want the Government to do for me.

A) Stop giving money to every loser who asks for it

B) Stop all this foreign crap, aiding other countries and fighting their wars. I know we're good people and want all the world to be as peaceful and fruity as our country but, if we look back at history, there is only one way to do this, by conquering the hell out of them. Which hardly ever leads to a true peace anyways.

C) Stop taxing me for A) and B)

D) Leave me the hell alone

The part that comes closest to these things, the party who's for getting the governments nose out of every little thing, is the Libertarian party.

If I had my way we'd elect our officials through selective lottery, as would happen in a true democracy.

by far the biggest tax expenditure is defense, if you removed A and B from your taxes, youd hardly notice a difference

i agree with D, but the biggest threat to personal freedom is not government, its the private sector.  the vast majority of peoples lives are dictated to them by their employer, what to wear, what to say, what clothes you can wear, what prescription drugs you can take, what doctors you can see, when to wake up in the morning, what you can say, etc.  like it or not,  government is the only true outlet that can limit the influence

No, not by far is the biggest expenditure defense. It maybe is the biggest 'single' category by itself, I don't really feel like perusing the federal spending website for proof, but social security and health and human resources, or whatever it's called, take most of the cake. Foreign affairs are relatively minor, but I still don't think we should mess with sovereign nations unless we're going to conquer them.

As far as employers are concerned, it's a capitalist country, they can, or should be allowed to, do whatever the fuck they want. If they are unfair to their employees then it is the employee's right to quit, if all the employees quit then the company will either go out of business or revise its whatever, company rules. That's how it should work.

But when the government starts making all these rules that the employers have to follow, the country moves towards socialism. And I sure as hell don't want that.

at their very cores, pure capitalism and pure democracy cannot coexist.  (you cannot legally buy or sell your vote), so one or the other must be trimmed to come up with the hybrid our system uses.

the constitution only establishes a republic (represenative democracy), and makes no specific mention of a free market.  it establishes rights and freedoms for citizens, and vests a government to protect those rights.  the only limit to personal freedom is when one citizen impedes on the rights of another.  the government stops this by enacting and enforcing laws.

over the years, the same personal freedom that citizens enjoy has been extended to corporations, with that freedom comes the same resposibility of not impedeing on the rights of other corporations OR people, and the government has the same responsibility to legislate when freedoms and rights are being violated.

I wish the US was a fascist state.

I agree
I don't agree

Like it was said the problem with the US is the poor and middle class tolerate the rich. your right in saying the only way change can come about would be for the employees to walk out and for others not to come in and take their job...thats the biggest problem in the US employers can say if you quit theres 100 other people that would take your job. Which is the truth. So until the poor stand together we have to live by the upper classes rules..I had a sociology teacher say the only way change would ever happen is if the goverment would do away with all the welfare and programs that give crumbs to the poor.

Wow, you actually had a sensible sociology teacher. That's awesome.

And maybe a little facsism would do us good. A nice few year run that sets everyone straight. Then we can go back to whatever.

The poor and middle class should work hard, not try to get as much as they can for as little as they can.  THat is why they are the poor and middle class.

that is a myth, hard work alone does not equal success.  ask any migrant

Thats funny as hell, because I got my hard work ethic from an immigrant who rose the economic ladder through hard work.

The words of a man who was never poor?

When i was younger my mom made something like 5$s too much a week to get welfare. So she couldn't get daycare for me and my younger brother while she worked waitressing.

She was told to quit working so she could get welfare by the workers.

These programs don't need to be eliminated they need serious reform though.

Average/rich people bitch about programs that help undeserving people who don't try to better their lives. From personal and views it seems to be set up that way on purpose.

And hardwork doesn't always = success. Knowing the right people does.

I speak for the poor who try to get out. I would like to kill those who don't to screw the system and ruin it for those who really need it and those who are paying into it.

I hate political bullshit.

exactly

When I was a kid, our house wouldn't have water for a couple months out of the year.  We couldn't afford the keep the heat (oil) on more than 3 or 4 hours a day total.  Every single item of clothing was second hand.  I got ripped on at a school that was 50% black and poor because of the POS car my mom drove.  I've lived in Bosnia for 4 months on 1,000 dollars.  I know what it is like to be poor.  That is why I have the work ethic that I do today.

That is no excuse.  If you want to know the right people, you ask people what they do when you meet them.  Whenever I meet people old enough, I ask them what they do for a living.

Then you should also be able to understand where i am coming from.

Not everyone can make it out no matter how hard they try.
Then there are others who fuck the system generation after generation.


I one up you on the school though , i was the only white kid in my class for a few years in a row. The rest of them there were 5-10 of us though. ;)

Then again bosnia...

And Maybe there are people who can't "make it out" no matter how hard they try.  However, all the poor people I know are that way because they try to get as much for nothing.

I have no problem in supporting those who work hard.  The outside workers at the winery make only a dollar less at their unskilled job than I do at my other job, and way more than what I make per hour at the winery.  I pay people out of my own pocket who work for me.  The only difference is, I am hungry enough to work too jobs. 

In any event, I am VERY serious about asking people what they for a living.  This is some of the best advice I have ever gotten in my life

huh?

Going to the Greek Orthodox church, where about 90% of the elder generation were poor migrants, I see a whole lot of people who made something from nothing. Whether it be restaurants or whatever these people worked hard, and maybe they weren't millionaires but  they made enough money to support their children and give them an education.  And now, because those lower class immigrants worked hard to give their children the best, those children have become, for the most part, a successful middle class.

But if the lower class is to lay around while the government, AKA the taxpayers, gives them freebies what are they doing for the next generation? Well, since they will never pull ahead by simply recieving welfare, they'll be spawning more losers that will lay around while the government gives them freebies.

You want to know people.  Then ask them what they do every chance you get.  Later, (or even then) you have somewhere do go when you want something accomplished.

Two things I hate talking about....politics and religion...but, I gotta jump in here just real quick.

Problem is, these "right people" that we are supposed to "get to know" typically want nothing to do with the "little people."  If the people you are talking to actually don't look down on you or don't consider you some sort of charity case, then you're real lucky.  Most of the "right people" are too self-absorbed to give a damn.

And it is a sorry fact of life that it's not what you know, but who you blow...er, know. ;)

thats great, but that was a community of people that worked together, and you could get by with a lot less because of the support from others.  

in todays world, a person and their family is all the support they have.  a person needs a job to support themselves, and therefore they are at the mercy of an employer.  if one day, a new boss comes in and doesnt like you, forget about it.  

its awfully easy to say "get a new job" if you have only worked easy jobs, and have no real responsibilities, but getting a real job in the real world is very hard, and it can be taken away from you awfully easy, no matter how much hard work you put in.  

My thing about the goverment is its pretty much limited to the wealthy. why if you had millions of dollars would you spend millions of your money to get a job that pays a hundred thousand a year. The main reason IMO that they want office is to make themselves richer..Im not speaking for anyone but myself but the way I see it its like the special they ran several years ago about the goverment paying 5 thousand dollars for a hammer and hundreds for a screw..Im sure those items were purchased from some goverment offical who owned the hammer company or had his hands in the cookie jar somehow.My main point to the thread is our country is getting divided by the two partys with people taking sides when I belive neither party sincerley cares about anyone but themselves and their buddies...
Just like gas prices I think the Oil guys who helped Bush got their cookie by raising the price of gas over the past 6 years lining their pockets..now that election time is near they were told to drop the prices til the election is over to make the republicans look good..which im sure as soon as the election is over the prices are going back up.

Then the democrats are trying to win votes complaining about the war..but I feel the happy slappy days of peace love and happiness are over and to many people dont relize the radical islamist are serious about taking us out..Do they think the Iran president is just kidding when he makes the statements he does.

You missed the point.  Ask this to everyone you meet.  You have a question about roofing nails, ask somone who is a roofer.  Its called networking.

Asking someone about the complexities of roofing nails is not networking.  You completely lost me.  I thought we were talking about knowing the right people in order to advance in society.  ???

Ah well, I've grown to hate thinking anyway.  Time to go play a game!

I don't give a flying expletive about how easy or hard it is to get a job. Did you read the last paragraph? My point is, I want all these losers to stop laying around on the couch waiting for the government to give them my money.

The point about the Greeks is that they came in as the lower class and raised their children to the middle class. Since the lower class these days has the option of laying around on the couch waiting for the government to give them my money this doesn't seem to be happening as much.

a - they dont have that option, welfare is limited now, benefits get cut off after x number of months, that was changed in the mid 90s

b - a minimum wage job is barely enough to support one person, letalone a family.  when welfare reform was passed the thinking was that once people started working, they would no longer need extra help.  most reasonable people would agree that if you do work, you should be able to earn enough to pay for the basics (car, rent, health care, child care).  this is not the case.  what dillutes this, is the fact that the price of crap is much cheaper now than it has been in the past.  a TV used to be a major purchase, and now you can get one for well under 100 dollars.  some talking heads call this progress, people can afford more stuff, but if you cant afford the basics, what good is a cheap tv?

who the hell is forcing them to work minimum wage and only 40 hours a week.  There are plenty of unskilled entry level jobs that make more than that, and people have the ability to work more than 40 hours a week.  I know it seems like some CRAZY idea, but its true.

people DIED fighting for the 40 hour work week

if you do not have many responsibilities outside of work, working more than that is pretty easy to do, but if you have kids putting in more than that really causes as many problems as it fixes

People also died for fascism.

If you can't support kids, then you shouldn't of been having sex.

If another mod/admin wants they can unlock this.

But everyone has made their points and i can see things possibly getting ugly(er).