RF Generation Message Board

Well, I saw the film last night, I am interested in current affairs, politics and history, and I do like documentaries.

I did not think that it was a very good film at all, Michael Moore just seemed to rant, the documentary was too disjointed for my liking, and there was too much histrionics. Some of the content was irrelevant too.

For example, Michael Moore was filming outside of the Saudi embassy. Now, I myself think that Saudi Arabia has a terrible human rights record, but I don't think that there is anything wrong with the American Secret Service going up to a film crew outside of a foreign embassy and politely asking them what they are doing. Security for foreign diplomats isn't sinister, it's common sense.

Nor do I think that there is anything odd about the armed forces being pro-active in recruiting - nothing suprising about a recruiting office having a "business card" with a phone number and e-mail on it - really.

Nor do I think it helped interviewing the couple of people whos children had been killed fighting for the US in Iraq - it seemed to be almost exploitation to me.

It could have been so much better, so much more could have been made with the material available, but Moore seemed to use a "scatter gun" approach by blasting at Bush with as much political spin as he could muster, it seemed to be less a decent film, and more of a political broadcast by the Michael Moore ego party. A lot of the time Moore just came out with statements, and provided little evidence to back it up.

Which is a shame, I wanted to like the film, I wanted to agree with Michael Moore, but a lot of the time I just couldn't.

Thats the first time i have ever heard that opinion every other time i hadheard anyone say anything about it they said that it was completely false and he took things out of context and the other was that it was a real eye opener to what our president is really doing. I wanted to see it when it came out but that was mostly because of the seen where Bush says "I think all the world leaer should come together to help restabilize Iraq, Now watch me make this putt."(it was something to that effect) but the more i heard about it the less intereseting it seemed.

That scene is a perfect example of what THX was saying too. What is wrong with the President making a comment about the war while playing golf? There is absolutely nothing wrong with it. Moore just tries to make it look like it's some terrible thing. This is just another example of Michael Moore generating his own facts because he has nothing truly substantial to show.

I can't comment on this movie because I have not seen it. I have seen parts of Bowling for Columbine and Roger and Me. I don't think you can really call a MIchael Moore film a true documentary. isn't a documentary just a presentation of facts? Michael Moore presents the material in a way that supports his view of the story. Michael Moore movies are not true documentaries in that they are not unbiased presentations of known facts but rather presented in a manner to illicit a strong response.

not that there's anything wrong with that. it's just important to know that what you're seeing is not straight reporting but more of an op/ed piece.

I haven't seen it personally but I've gotten the play-by-play from a few Moore fans. I understand there's a part in the film where the screen is blank and you simply hear the planes hitting the WTC? If this is true (and from what I've heard of the film) I think the lil bitch skipped putting the video of the planes crashin so that gullible people would listen to that while thinking of the last images in their head: whatever Moore planted, and getting upset over it. The -typical- response to seeing the planes hit the WTC is anger and/or fear so I feel that it's a big ol mindfuck on Moore's part. Why didn't he just show the video? Cause if he showed the video maybe, just maybe people would get angry and feel that Bush did something right.

I've heard people say that they hated it and it's a piece of shit as well as those who said it was wonderful and they cried and cheered. You guys are correct, it's just one man's view. Those who were truly "touched" by this film are nothing more than weak, gullible, pathetic, mindless sack of skin. I just can't bring myself to go see it. Far as I'm concenred Moore is a communist and I will not support anything of the sort.

I hear a lot of people complaining, like Den, that Michael Moore doesn't make documentaries because there's a lot of his own opinion in it. But isn't that the case with every documentary? ' This car is great' , ' the holocaust was bad' , ' the police is corrupt' .  A documentary is all about showing what the maker finds important and explaining that in a way he thinks is right.

And while I haven't seen fahrenheit yet, I'll probably agree with Den. I downloaded his tv show a while back and while it's pretty funny, he usually pushes his ideas too far. Just when he's making a good point he tries to make it even better, but ends up making it worse. In the end I still think it's good to have an activist like him to stand up for all the idiots in the usa, but he's a bit of an idiot himself as well, sometimes.

I wasn't complaining and sure, all documentaries are somewhat biased. after all, the victors do write the history. but you gotta admit there is a vast difference in how the material is presented in a Michael Moore documentary and one you'd see on the History Channel. I could be wrong but I'm guessing his intent is to get people riled up.

The more drastic his approach is the more it will get talked about i think this is what he was trying to do and you all fell right into his little plan

I'm almost positive that he did show the viedo of the planes hitting the trade center.  I could be wrong, but either way you're making way too big of a thing about this.



Those who make blanket statements like this about millions of people without actually SEEING THE FILM should take a minute to think before they speak.



He has worked on the campaigns of Ralph Nader and Wesley Clark.  Are they communists too?  And so what if they or Moore were?  The whole point of this country is to be able to be what you want and say what you want.  I came back from Peru more or less a socialist.  You gonna stop talking to me too?  Want to write a letter to Bush to tell him to keep any eye on me?  PLEASE.

Besides, going to the movie supports capitalism, thus making your boycott completely ridiculous, null, and void.

Everyone disregard the last post.

No Mike, not going to the movie supports capitalism; voting through your money.

I think what you meant to say is that going to the movie supports the economy, which I can't argue against.

Main Entry: cap·i·tal·ism
Pronunciation: 'ka-p&-t&l-"iz-&m, 'kap-t&l-, British also k&-'pi-t&l-
Function: noun
: an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market

/end intelegent part of post
Going to the movie just supports the moore's fat ass.  
(http://www.hydrobond.net/forum/fatass.jpg)

He I AM a socialist.

I just don't like the movie.

I've seen enough of his "work" *laff* to know that this movie is utter crap without having seen it. I can get the gist just from what I've read and heard about it: Moore tries to prove his so-called points to no end, points fingers, blames the wrong people, and gains praise from masses of blind fools and tree huggin hippies. No thanks, I can think of a better way to waste my money.



Fair point. And seriously, does the guy look like he really needs more money to buy more cheetos?...lmfao

I have seen it, and I have opinions, which every american citizen should have. (meaning form their own damn opinions, not meaning they have mine.)

Bushbash 9/11 is a comedy, not a documentary.  There is nothing particularly wrong with comunism. The soviet model was a corrupt dictatorship.  Vote with your dollar; vote Nader.

Everyone should vote Nader. He is easily the best choice in this election.

as long as no one votes kerry.

dude are you even old enough to vote?

No but whats that matter? I still hope none of you vote Kerry. He sucks. I hope no one needs an explanation why...

why...

For starters he goes on about his 3 purple hearts and various other medals, when he came back home from the war he is going to anti-war summits and demonstrations, but what does he talk about so people listen not him at antiwar summits thats for damn sure.
He was one of the Senators who OK'ed the Iraq war but then he said he said they should threaten and now he says he is anti-war (again)
On 2 different occasions he voted yes for trading with china now he says that we shouldnt be and uses that against the current administration.
And honestly  I cant see a reason that he is more qualifid for presidency than Bush. I dont think anyone can really be qualified to be president its not something you can train for, but at least Bush has 4 years experiance and i dont care how bad anyone says he was thats 4 more years than Kerry.
In 08 im voting McCain if he runs again.
(how many more do i need to come up with just gimme a number [smiley=laugh.gif])

cant really comment on the purple hearts (never been in the military).
at least he served his time in the war unlike your bush whose dad got him in the coast guard during nam.  so kerry does his time and gets the medals in a war that he did not support, what does that mean?  do you want him to give the medals back?  i dont get it.  looks to me like he understood that his fellow citizens were being drafted and felt that he was no different from anyone else.  he did his time and saved some american lives while at it.    
bush spends more time at his ranch than at the white house doing any work.  thats what i am looking for.  someone that is at their ranch mountain biking (and falling off the bike) instead of doing what he is paid to do.  i go to work every day, why shouldnt he?  
and qualified?  what makes you think that bush is qualified?  were did you come up with that?  
just because he stumbled thru 4 years makes him better?  
why doesnt he do something productive like find osama binladen?  
oh i'm sure that laden will show up about a month before the election.  

i dont know what this means.
you must be making things up like bush does.

comedy? Where is the biting satire?

Mark Thomas Comedy Product is my idea of political comedy.

Just like his pay stubs did |D |D.
But seriously as bad a bush did what do you think Gore could've done so much better?
At least we can laugh at Bush and his stupidity.
Which reminds me has anyone seen Jay Leno lately? they have a thing they show bush speaking in english and spanish. He is pretty good in spanish ... now if he could only get that english down he'd be set

the man likes to make up words.  he prolly thought that he was speaking english.

I like it when he says evil doers and bad guys.

Can you actually speak Spanish and verify that he was actually speaking it correctly?  Bush once referred to "Mexican" as a language, so I'm kind of doubting he can speak Spanish very well.  I'm not disputing his poor English, though, because we all know he can't speak it.

They had video clips of him speaking with Spains what ever the hell the call there leader. And i can speak a little spanish i've taken it in school for awhile.
Really mexican?
Bush is definately college material huh?

First of all, Bush got a 1320 on his SAT, which puts him at roughly a 136 IQ.  He attended Yale and graduated.  His public speaking abilities say nothing about his intelegence.  

And a note on Kerry's purpule hearts.  
(I am a not a Kerry supporter, which I am sure has become evident thus far.)
John Kerry won 3 Purple Hearts.  Any man who serves his country in this manner is a good man, especially if he did not agree with the war in which he served.  The mere fact that he went into war for his country that he did not agree with makes him winning a medel even more commendable.  I ask that anyone arguing for President Bush not critisize Kerry's medals.  Besides, there are pleanty of other arguments for Bush.

MIke, I can understand Bush perfectly fine, and I only speak English.  

Do you know why he got those purple hearts? i suggest you read this before you talk about his shining military record.
http://www.nationalreview.com/york/york200405041626.asp
http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.org/kerry_pur_hrts.htm
i knew he got 1 for no real reason either story you choose i would go with the second one its supposed to be from the Boston Globe but there both worth giving a once over.
My advice to all of you would to not pay to much attaention to what they did to get medals what they did to get grades and what ever the hell else they did that you might think is a bonus. What you should do is find out who sticks to their story(not Kerry) who knows what is going on the world(not Bush). What the hell Listen to Evil and vote nadar he ont get the 5% anyways. I dont really give a shit whos president now because i cant effect it but buy the time i am able to vote ill be screwed over anyways because of some dumbass law they approve.
But thats just my opinion im only 16 what the hell would i know
also IQ tests dont mean shit
take an IQ test i bet you do about as good as bush
good i took one a few months ago i was at 127 let me get this going else where

If you don't really give a shit then why are you arguing so much.  
I never said anything about an IQ test.  But, they are not shit. The ones you find on the internet are NOT IQ tests.  (IQ tests are administered by professionals, not web browsers.)
Learn how to construct a sentence, half the time its hard to even find your argument.  

IQ tests really don't mean a thing, except that they can predict how well a person will *probably* do in a school setting.  Ask any psychologist under the sun and they'll tell you that they mean absolutely nothing otherwise.

II hate I.Q tests, I can't do those shape puzzles at all. I am, despite my terrible spelling and typos on the board, quite good at the English questions.

Anyway, my point about this movie, is that I don't think it is a good movie at all.

Birth of a Nation for example, altough racist and bigotted in the extreme,   is a good movie  - I can stand back from my own views and beliefs, and say that Birth of a Nation is a good film.

Wheras, even if I allow my anti-war, socialist views to influence my opinion of Fahrenehite 9/11 - I still don't think that it is a good film.

Simple as that - it's a poor movie.

i misunderstood you point on stating Bush's iq then.
But i was just trying to say that your iq means nothing. It is just a guess on you potential.
I dont care now because i cant do anything to change what is happnening but i have to care when i get older because it will effect me.
Everyone who can vote is being effected by some desicions that were made before they could could vote. So i have no decision on possible laws, because i am not an adult i have no say in what could effect me.
And i will not post long posts anymore that late at night i went over it before i posted it and thought i had gotten it pretty legible but apparently i was wrong.

I saw this movie in the cinema tonight and I have no idea why all americans get so upset about this.  Maybe he doesn't get all his sources right, and of course he looks at the facts from his own point of view, but does that change anything about the facts that ARE true? And that form the ' plot'  of this documentary?

Bush did fuck up before the attacks on 9/11 by not listening to his advisors, Bush is friends with powerfull saudi's, the patriot act is an apalling piece of shit, bush and cheney do have ties with companies that profit from the war, Iraq was no threat, there were no weapons of mass destruction and no ties between Iraq and Al quaida.  In short: Bush and his government fucked up.

I would love to get some sources that claim otherwise, because unlike the Moore haters on this board (especially antimind), I'm not afraid to look at something from a different point of view.

And I'm not saying this is a great documentary. There are some parts that had better been left out, the woman that kept crying over her lost son for example, or the happy images of iraq before the bombing. But everybody with an iq over 60 is smart enough to form his own opinion about  this and not just buy what Moore seems to imply. Besides, Moore isn't the most serious person, so it's not like you should take his documentaries too seriously.

I couldn't agree more.