RF Generation Message Board

Normally, when one thinks of Taito, and shoot-em-up games, two things often come to mind. One would be Taito's Space Invaders, which ostensibly birthed the genre, or one of its many sequels, or spin-off games. Second, some would immediately think of the long-running Darius series, and its various arcade and console iterations. Occasionally, however, a company like Taito will throw us for a loop, and publish something that has nothing to do with their main intellectual properties. In 1992, they did just that, with Grid Seeker: Project Storm Hammer. Rather than scrolling horizontally, like their flagship, aquatically inspired shooting game series, Taito gave us a vertical scrolling game, based much more closely on some form of reality.

Set in a (then) future 1999, in an alternate reality, based upon some events post Persian Gulf War, an unnamed Middle Eastern nation has risen to military prominence in the region. Starving for resources, they begin attacking neighboring countries to seize their resources. Despite their lack of resources, they have devised weapons powerful enough to overcome these other nations, and have become a threat to the entire world. In response, a military alliance has formed, and is wielding a new technology, called Gyrodrive Reactive Intercept Device, or GRID. Using 1 of 3 fighter jets, along with these GRID units, you're sent into battle to take on the warring nation, and bring an end to their military might. Though not ported to consoles during that era, the Taito Legends 2 compilation (PS2, Xbox) gives the opportunity to play this game in an official form. Join the RF Generation Shmup Club in February 2020, as we take on Taito's Grid Seeker: Project Storm Hammer!

Also, remember that we'll still be working on our 2020 Score Challenge game, Ketsui: Kizuna Jigoku Tachi. Please continue to post in that thread after January as well, and continue to play the game, and share your scores and progress. We hope to continue to see players jumping into that competition throughout the year. Good luck!

Participants:
MetalFRO
Addicted
SaturdayDevelopment
zoydo
EZ Racer

Never heard of this title, but looking forward to playing it.  Count me in!

(Hope my Xbox still works...)

It's a cool game, i will be around and play some credits.

Excellent! Glad to have you both on board for this one, and looking forward to playing a few virtual credits myself :D

Ready for February!

Nice! Does the Xbox version have 480p output? I'm curious, because I've been wanting to get the Xbox version of TL2, since it swaps out a few of the games, notably, a couple shmups that are on the PS2 version, but excluded from the Xbox version.

Borrowed TL2 from a friend. Now just have to get the PS2 set back up. :)

Welcome aboard!

Okay, dumb question:  How can I tell if it has 480p output?

There will often be an indicator on the back of the box that will show if it’s 480p or above, like this site:


https://www.gamesdatabase.org/media/microsoft-xbox/artwork-box-back/van-helsing


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No such luck on this box.

Thanks for checking! It’s probably 480i, like the PS2 version, then.


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This isn't an impressive score (I'm not even the top scorer on the default scores), but I wanted to get things started:  323,720 on easy.  I can get to level 4 consistently, but things typically end there.

Very cool! I didn't try it on Easy, but I'll have to do that. I think on my first couple attempts, I made it to stage 2, or possibly 3. Definitely need to fire this one up for a stream tonight!

Seems I'm kind of terrible at this game! I'm definitely going to need some practice. I haven't managed to make it past the Stage 2 boss yet, at least not this evening. So far, I like the helicopter best, and I'm digging the blue weapon. The green bomb, with its homing capabilities, is pretty cool, but I like the straight ahead laser bomb of the blue weapon best right now.

I like having the green (homing) GRID for the main levels then switching over to blue (laser) for the bosses.  Red is fine.  I can't use yellow, I find the continual explosion it puts out to be too distracting and interferes with the visuals of the "fire bullets" on some of the bosses.  Of course, I'm always going for a green powerup and it switches to yellow at the last minute...

I did notice that the weapon type power-up changes colors very quickly. It seems to get into a rhythm, and depending on where it is on screen when it spawns, and what weapon type you want, you may end up having to go to the top of the screen to get it. Gets a bit dangerous.

@SaturdayDevelopment: i also switch between blue and green. Usually i try to play with the blue laser and try to switch to green at the beginning of stage 3. It works nice with the enemies coming from behind and the sides and it's also helpful at the boss fight.

@MetalFRO: it's a bit frustrating with the power-ups. I died several times trying to pick them up. Especially when you got hit and try to power up fast to stand a chance at all, things can get a bit hectical.

There is a part in the first stage where you are about 60% in where they try to bait with a power up and a weapon change that turns green at the very top of the screen and 3 jets come in right in the perfect place to crash into you.  I tend to wait on all powerups until they are at least on the bottom half of the screen now.

Yeah, I've been duped by this too many times. Sometimes, they're just not worth getting, unless you can time it just right.

@zoydo - you're absolutely right. I've found, so far, that recovery after dying in the latter part of stage 1, or during the boss fight, is very difficult. My goal is to try and avoid stage 1 deaths at all, if possible.

I started playing this on MAME last night, and what a difference that makes! The screen orientation is so much more natural, and I feel like it's better. I still feel cramped, with the stage 1 boss fight, because it comes so far down the screen, but I really think it's a better way to play it. Sound emulation is kinda iffy, but it's still probably a better experience for sheer game play.

I just found that there is an option in the main TL2 menu that lets you play in the original aspect ratio!  In the game select screen, select the default option which will bring you into a settings menu.  You can change it in Video Settings.

Great find! I feel a bit silly, that I didn't find this myself. Thank you for the update on this! Hopefully, I can play some more on PS2 now, and actually have it work the way it's supposed to.

Hit my weekend goal of breaking 400K (401,350).  I had an excellent run in stage one and two.  Beat the stage two boss without dying.  Died once in stage 3, and then (of course) lost all my lives in stage 4 without even making it to the boss.

Nice job! I haven't managed to break past 255K so far, and have only reached stage 3 once. It's hard to adjust to this, after playing so much Ketsui, because the hitbox is much larger, and the gameplay style is a fair bit different.

I am perpetually stuck in stage 1 and 2. Not sure what my mental block is with this game, but I am just not progressing. I've managed to make stage 3 a few times, and even made it to the boss once, and it really ramps up. But for some reason, the stage 1 boss can sometimes get me, and recovery there is hard. Then in stage 2, boss recovery is even harder, and I end up just bombing as much as I can, only to still lose all my lives, because the bosses are so spongy, and those stupid orange homing energy balls are slightly unpredictable, and harder to dodge. I might try and see if I can find a replay or two to watch, because I'm struggling.

Not sure if this helps, but here are some tips on how I manage the level 1 boss, and I take it out pretty quick and reliable (e.g. I never die there).

• I try to bring "helper-copter" with me to help up the firepower, plus you get a bonus for finishing the level with the helper intact.  Picking up the H as late as possible helps with this.
• The main things to dodge on the L1 boss are the fireballs.  The first two fireball attacks I avoid by swinging far right, then far left, trying to get as many shots in in-between.
• After the first two attacks, I try to just pepper the core of the boss as hard as possible with fire.  The next two fireball attacks can be dodged in the lower middle of the screen, but takes a little bit of reaction skill to do.  I find that the boss doesn't typically last longer than these attacks.

If there was an easy way to pull video off my Xbox, I'd post a video, but hope the above helps.

Yeah, I have the strategy for the boss down, but sometimes I get sniped by the homing missiles. That's my big problem there - if I don't take them out, or if they swing around either side, go to the bottom of the screen, and don't just disappear, but double back, then I'm hosed. I haven't found a consistent way to predict if/when they will do that, either.

Learned something about the Stage 2 boss last night: those large orange orbs are homing, but only if you're moving. When they're fired off, if you're standing still at the bottom of the screen, they will come down, cross over each other, and fly past you. The problem I have there is getting a good position for the GRID, so I can absorb all the bullets. At the beginning of that boss phase, it shoots enough of them that some will invariably not be directed squarely at the GRID, and one will slip through. If you try to dodge it, you're likely to either clip a missile, get hit by the laser, or cause the orange orbs to more directly fly at you. It's a delicate balance, that I haven't quite figured out yet. I got my PB so far, however, so I'll have to grab that screenshot and post it. Not quite where you guys are yet, score-wise, but I'm at least making some progress.

Also, I figured out that your end stage bonus is based on your % of enemy destruction. Having all 4 bombs in stock will net you an automatic 20K, and if the number of enemies you've taken out is high enough, you can up that to 50K. Combine that with the 50K you can achieve by getting the "helper" and keeping it alive until you defeat the boss, and it's possible to get upwards of 170K in Stage 1. I managed to do that a few times last night, and then even if I died during the Stage 2 boss, I'd still usually end up with well over 200K. My best so far was over 330K, and I reached the 2nd or 3rd phase of the Stage 3 boss.

Thank you for figuring this out!  That has been driving me nuts.  I had all kinds of conspiracy theories on why it would only give a 20k bonus sometimes.

Yeah, I've been trying to pay attention enough to see what the pattern was, and it finally dawned on me a couple nights ago :)

Had an excellent, fully-caffeinated run this morning:  452,860
Level 1: 50k bomb bonus and 50k helper-copter bonus
Level 2: 50k bomb bonus
Level 3: 50k helper-copter bonus (spammed bombs hard)
Level 4: Took a late bullet from the first big plane and lost all my momentum.  Crash and burn.

So I wasn't able to get started on Grid Seeker until late last week. Spent a fair amount of time over the weekend with it.

I really want to like this game; interesting gameplay, fun mechanic with the grids and bullet collecting, solid graphics and sound. But so far, I just haven't. I want to be able to shoot while moving my ship forward on the screen, and I can't do that without moving the Grids.

While I realize this is a direct port of an arcade game, every game I find myself wishing the Grids were controlled by the L and R triggers. I realize that it is probably part of the challenge of the game to have the controls set up in this manner, but even then, basing the challenge on a control gimmick rather than on the natural flow of the game feels a bit artificial.

I probably just need to spend more time getting used to it. But it just seems like it would make the controls smoother and the game so much more accesible with this change.

My best score is just under 120,000 as I'm still struggling to consistantly defeat the Level 1 boss. No pics to post yet.

On a side note, playing it on a borrowed copy of Taito Legends 2. Had never heard of Metal Black until I saw it right next to Grid Seeker on the game select screen. It's an interesting shmup as well.

Check your instructions.  I'm using the Xbox version of TL2 and the right trigger auto-fires without moving the GRIDs.  If you use A, then the GRIDs move when you move (which I've never been able to properly control).  I agree that if I had buttons to control the GRID movement, I would use them more.  However, I tend to just keep them out in direct front.

I also checked out Metal Black and thought it was a pretty interesting shmup that I've never heard of.

@SaturdayDevelopment - nice score! Looks like you're making good progress :D

@EZ Racer - I know what you mean, but consider the context of the time the game came out. Outside of Street Fighter 2, Mortal Kombat, and NEO GEO games, very few arcade games utilized more than 2 buttons. In a bit of an interesting trade-off, you also get auto-fire, which wasn't necessarily a standard thing in arcade shmups until a couple years after this point. It's part of the challenge of the game, and while I agree it can be frustrating, there are moments where it works well.

Speaking of which, I've been trying to refine my strategy for the Stage 2 boss, so I can be more consistent with beating it on 1 life, and not dying. Sadly, I'm not quite there yet. I have a save-state in MAME set up just before the boss, and I looped through that a bunch last night. In doing so, I've discovered that the bosses seem to have some RNG with how they play out. Using auto-fire, so the fire rate is exactly the same each time, I've noticed that sometimes I'll get a hail of bullets during a particular moment in the boss fight, and other times I won't. If I take out the right-side extending arm first, and then sit off just to the right of its position, at the bottom of the screen, I can often just sit there and pelt the cannon on the back that fires the orange orbs. In doing so, sometimes the small turrets will shoot pink bullets at me, and I'll have to lightly adjust my position, so the GRIDs will catch them, and other times, I'll get no bullets. It doesn't seem to be tied to how many of the small turrets are still on the left-side extending arm. But it's not an absolute safe spot 100% of the time. Also, I figured out that, once I've eliminated the right-side extending arm, and can make those minor adjustments to catch bullets, with the bomber, fully powered up, its wide shot is enough to take out the incoming missiles, and deal damage to the boss, so it's just a matter of keeping that up until it goes down. That makes the bomber the most effective craft against that boss, in my opinion. Also, the wing extensions on the bomber are not vulnerable, so you don't have to factor that in as part of the hit box.

Huzzah! A new PB this evening, using the Bomber, and reaching stage 5! That was my absolute best run in this game, by a fair margin. I was just on point for the run, and everything came together, until I hit stage 6, then it fell apart quickly. But I feel like it's doable. Not sure if I'll progress past that, but I might have to practice a bit in stage 4 and beyond, to see if I can at least get a little further before the end of the month. I do also want to try and credit-feed to the end, if I can do so w/o crashing the game, like I did before.

ALSO, I mapped out the bonus totals for the number of bombs you finish the stage with:

# Bombs                      # Bonus Points
----------------------------------------------
0                                  0
1                                 1000
2                                 3000
3                                 10000
4                                 20000
4 & full meter               50000

As mentioned before, having a surviving helper nets you 50K. Also, you get an additional 100 points per enemy killed in each stage, and it seems like it's cumulative per level you advance, maybe? It's not a big bonus, but if you take out a lot of enemies as you go along, you get a slight point boost, so you can take advantage of that.

Anyone have any final thoughts on the game that I can include in the podcast notes?

Grid Seeker is a hidden gem.  I had never heard of it before this playthrough, but I'm glad to have checked it out.  The GRID system is a unique and fun way of managing bombs and defensive strategy.  I was glad that the scoring was pretty straightforward, considering this was my first shot at a monthly playthrough.  The soundtrack was excellent and had a good variety of tracks.  The tracks on level 3 and 5 were highlights for me.

One other item of note is that Taito Legends 2 is a solid compilation of games.  I like that they had 3d mockups of the arcade cabinets for each game, along with some marketing materials.  I tried a few of the other shooters, but they paled in comparison to Grid Seeker.  I did find that trying out other games after an intense round of GRID seeker was a good way of cooling down.