RF Generation Message Board

PARTICIPANTS:
GrayGhost81
singlebanana
douglie007
Disposed Hero
Addicted

CHECKPOINTS:
Week one: Two glass eyes face one another from across a narrow room.
Week two: Catapult me!
Week three: "Exhausted, I fell into a deep slumber..."
Week four: Finish the game.

TIPS & TRICKS
1. If you played ICO or Shadow of the Colossus you know how the controls in Ueda's games are unique. If you're not familiar with this control style, it may take some getting used to. Have patience.

2. Speaking of the controls, the boy sticks to Trico like frigging velcro. Even if you've played SotC, this element is completely different. If you get frustrated trying to get onto or off of Trico, just relax and try jumping clear off of the top of his head. Otherwise, try holding the X button to let go and fall off.

3. Use the game's generous checkpointing system. A tactic I developed when I found myself getting flustered or stuck on what to do next is resetting to the last checkpoint via the pause menu. Many times, this is helpful as it "resets" both the boy and Trico in way that sort of aims them towards the next goal. Nine times out of ten this helped me figure out what I needed to do. Every so often, it wouldn't. In those cases, I turned the game off and returned to it the next day. Without fail, I was able to push through.

4. Have patience. I'm going to be honest, at first this game tried my patience in ways I've never experienced before. I almost fell into the same mental trap I did in July with Shining Force II, putting pressure on myself to make sure the game was in the can and checkpoints set up for the playthrough. However, I understood quickly and adjusted myself to realize something extremely important when playing this game. If you try to rush it, you're gonna have a bad time. The main gameplay element here is cooperating with a gigantic animal who has a mind of its own. I think animal lovers might have a smoother time with this game, as I know that helped me. All others, take your time and get used to Trico's behavior.  

I still need to finish July & August

Ha ha!  Get on it son!

I need to get this game now... The hunt begins put me down, Ill figure out what I will do when I get to the time to play :)

Kind of figured you might be in. ;)

I just finished this quite recently. I'm not gonna play again this soon, but it's fresh enough that I can watch some videos to refresh myself and hopefully add some constructive conversation.

That would be awesome Crabby!

@singlebanana: I need to finish Horizon Zero Dawn... I'm close to the end.

YOU FINISH THESE GAMES AND YOU LIKE IT!

@singlebanana: I finished the August game so add me in for the September game.

if anyone needs this its only 20$ at gamefly https://www.gamefly.com/#!/game/The-Last-Guardian/5009579 (https://www.gamefly.com/#!/game/The-Last-Guardian/5009579)

I have the game and will start tonight... it might be the only way I can stay current.

I got yelled at for buying this... and about 500$ worth of other game stuff this month, I need to not go crazy on game some times, but I have to blame limited run games on most of the spending :)

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

@douglie007: I hope you saved enough for the SNES classic.

I started my playthough so I can keep up with the discussion when it starts. Then I can go back to Shining Force 2.

I still don't have a copy of this damn game yet, and I want to get started!

My first copy from Gamefly didn't work and had to be returned. I bought another copy off ebay and it is taking forever to arrive.

Oh well, at least my PS4 is hooked up. Right, Rich?

I'm close to finishing this game. Then it's off to Agents of Maybe.

Harsh.....  Harsh, but fair.

I havent even tested mine from GameFly....

 :laugh:

Well, against my better judgment, I'm going to go ahead and sign up for this one.  I'm already playing way too many games as it is, and Yakuza Kiwami coming out next week is going to add a lot of fuel to the fire, but if I don't play The Last Guardian now with you guys, I probably never will.

I'm still working on Shining Force II also...

@Disposed Hero: I'm still playing Shining Force 2 as well. I thought Agents of Mayhem might be my next game but it's average at best.

I just finished The Last Guardian. I'll append thoughts here once the thread officially gets moving.

Man, I've been so behind on play-throughs.  I was hoping maybe this would be something I could do, but I still don't have a PS4 yet, so I'll have to pass it by as well.  Sigh.  Maybe next month...

I'm about halfway through the game. I'm thinking about checkpoints, but I'm also really taking my time.

As the breathtaking, jaw-dropping moments unfold throughout this game, a thought occurs to me.

I have never been more grateful for anything in gaming in my entire life, than the fact that this game exists. 

You may want to get a PS4 before next month. ;)

@GrayGhost81: While I enjoyed the game and would give it a B or B+ the camera and problematic controls brought down the experience for me.

I hope its Night Trap LOL

Thats a bold statement! Can't wait to hear your thoughts

@douglie007: It's going to be Until Dawn. It's cheap, readily available, and picked up recently by singlebanana.

Now wait. I picked up that game almost a year ago.

@singlebanana: My mistake. I still stand by that Until Dawn is the October game.

The Last Guardian playthrough has begun!

First checkpoint as well as a few tips and tricks are up.

I was into this game a lot when it first came out. I got stuck at one point, and couldn't figure it out. Walked away. It is an amazing game, but SoC will always be my favorite of these.

Until Dawn works for me, I think they had it for a psn game a few months ago. Anyway, Last guardian so far is good, I just got to the point where you can "control" the cat/dog thing lol. Still working out how to do it correctly.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Good grief, you guys are on a roll with the PS4 stuff.  Sadly, I don't think it's in the budget for this month.  Maybe I'll get one as my Christmas present to myself, so I can finally play my Darius Burst CS game, and get the Raiden V package from Amazon with the soundtrack CD, but I probably won't be able to justify it before then, since I have some home improvement stuff I have to do before winter comes.

On a roll. This is the first PS4 exclusive game we've ever played. 🙄

Has anyone had a chance to start The Last Guardian yet? I'm dying to get the discussion started.

I can discuss the game.

Awesome. There really aren't any story points of note before my first checkpoint (though there is a major one right after it), so I'm going to throw a few things out here.

My first impressions of everything in this game weren't the greatest. Team Ico games (and yes, I know this isn't technically team Ico, but it is, so let's just call them that) are already alien in their style and especially controls when compared to mainstream games, but it did take me a little while to get used to the boy's herky jerky movement.

Further, I had issues getting used to moving on and around Trico within the first hour or so of the game. As I noted in the OP, it is very different from climbing a colossus. In fact, it is almost the opposite in how hard it is to get off of Trico.

Once I got used to everything however, I couldn't put the game down. A few of my play sessions were more than three hours long. I have to say, the game is very back-loaded and everything plot and gameplay wise really ramps up in the last four to six hours of the game. But even knowing that now and looking back, I was engrossed after the first two or three hours of the game.

I think the technical issues with this game are largely overblown. I'm using a PS4 Pro, and though I'm extremely sick of hearing about the framerates of every single game ever released, it was fine for me here. I will agree that there are some camera issues, but as I noted in my Attack on Titan review a few months back, I think this is understandable in a game where you have gigantic NPCs in small spaces.

I think Trico's design is amazing. It is very cat-like and I am a cat person. I'm not afraid to say I spent a lot of time petting Trico. I found it to be extremely relaxing. There is a game on the Wii called Endless Ocean where you can swim around and touch fish and it is very pleasant. My wife and I called it the "Pet the fishies game" and I like that game for the same reasons. I've seen tons of reviews arguing that Trico's ai is broken more often than not, and I cannot argue with that. For me, it clicked more often than not and that was enough to immerse me and truly feel the bond between the boy and Trico.

I agree that the controls are a bit stiff but it wasn't enough to make me quit in frustration. The boy does stick to Trico like glue an I had a couple times where I was trying to let go of Trico but instead ended up clipping through him and then falling through the environment. My main issue with the game is the telegraphing of the controls. There is a certain point in the game where a certain command is needed but you have to remember it from a prompt that appeared hours ago. The in game control menu only shows the basic controls.

With that said I thought Trico's scripting is well done and behaves similar to a dog or a cat. I did run in to scripting issues but they didn't make me feel disconnected from the experience. A dog and especially cat doesn't always do what you want it to and I expected the same from Trico. I felt connected to Trico and would always spend time healing Trico after a battle. The cry Trico makes as you remove the spears also tugged at me and helped make the bird/cat/dog a believable character.

The games environments do a great job at evoking a sense of wonder and adventure. I noticed a bit of slowdown but nothing that would deter from the experience.

I agree that the plot really picks up in the later half of the game. Did you watch past the credits?

I finally started the game last night and put about an hour into it.  I have to agree with most points so far.  The controls and the overall feel of the game were off-putting at first, but I got used to it after a while.  I haven't had much of an issue with getting stuck on Trico yet, but I do find it annoying how the boy gets stuck on or stumbles over everything in the environment.

I have to agree with the points made about Trico himself.  Trico's design, mannerisms, and reactions all feel very genuine.  As someone who has owned cats all of my life, I feel like I can sense what Trico is thinking just by observing his reactions to what's going on around him.

Our week two checkpoint is now live. This will bring us to roughly the halfway point of the game.

Some of you will be happy to know that my PS4 is finally hooked up!  With that, the first game I popped in was the Last Guardian.  I've been playing for two nights and managed to reach the first checkpoint.

My first impressions so far are very positive.  I love the choice of narration in this game. At the beginning, it acts as a tutorial, but then you realized that the game is a story being told by an older man and that he was the boy; it's a very cool concept. I can understand some issues with the camera, but honestly, I haven't experienced anything overly negative or had any real issues.  Controls to me are fine. A lot of the platforming/climbing reminds me of SotC, which is a very positive thing for me. Controlling Trico can be a little aggravating at times, but oddly fits with the game. If you've ever owned a pet, you know that they don't always listen.  However, this even gets a little better toward the end of the first checkpoint, where you are able to instruct Trico so that he mimics your actions.  It's really cool.  I'll mimic what Addicted and Disposed said about Trico, WOW, the way it moves and reacts is simply stunning and on point with cats, and even in my case, my dog. So well done.

I've heard people in reviews complain about the art style, but you won't get any from me.  Most of these are concerns regarding the game being moved from the PS3 to PS4. The game has a very beautiful, watercolor look that I am very fond of. It follows a great tradition of captivating art seen in Ico & SotC; Ueida definitely has his stamp on this game and as always, it's clear from the beginning. Stunning!

Speaking of Ico and SotC, I see other similarities other than the artwork. One includes being thrown into a story with little to no background. This is a mix between the two games in that while you have a more useful companion than you did in Ico, there is that same sense of loneliness that you feel in SotC. The statue enemies also remind me of the shadow people in Ico, their purpose is to grab (not specifically damage you) and you can get away even after "captured."  Much like Ico, there are more puzzle elements and platforming; while SotC is more open world, LG is more linear like Ico.  Anxious to hear other's thoughts and comparisons of these games. :)  

Checkpoint #2 achieved!

I put in a few hours last night with the game again.  My kids and wife have really being enjoying watching this game.  They are captivated by the graphics and of course, are all in love with Trico (he bears somewhat of a resemblance to our dog that departed 2 years ago, so there's that).  I got say, this game is not for the acrophobic. My family members are not a big fan of heights and it creates a lot of tension.  My son was screaming when I attempted jumps and I could see my daughter holding her hands over her eyes at times.  There was also a lot of chaos and screaming when I was being chased by enemies.  This tension really got me thinking, "Why do we all care so much?  It's just a game."  I think the answer lies in that the developers have succeeded in creating characters you know very little about in terms of background, but for some reason, you still love and care for.  That's pretty powerful storytelling, even though one only faintly exists.

Rich, that's awesome! Though this game has some pretty hefty emotional themes, it is definitely ok for the whole family. Though I played by myself, I can relate to there being a ruckus as I screamed out loud more than a few times in amazement while playing. This usually was followed by my wife asking me if I was ok from another room.

To me, the bond between the boy and Trico absolutely makes the game. Having watched many reviews of the game after playing it, it seems whether or not you drink the koolaid and buy in to that relationship is directly proportional to how forgiving you are to camera and control issues (which, again, I think are incredibly exaggerated anyway).

I can relate to this.  Trico's face (especially his eyes) reminds me of a stray cat I took care of for a couple of years and got pretty attached to.  He got hit by a car back in March.  :(

I need to get back to this game.  I don't think I've even hit the first checkpoint yet.  Don't want to fall behind like I did with Shining Force II! (which I'm still working on btw, just reached Moun!  ;D )

I was looking at the trophies and it had kill the guards with the lighting tail.  But I never found the shield again. Did I miss it or will we get it again?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Ah.... Only time will tell

New checkpoint is up!

I posted a question a few days ago on twitter and didn't get any bites. Maybe someone here wants to chime in?

I love animal companions in games, though Trico kind of goes above and beyond what I'm used to.

Some of my favorites are DD from MGSV, Korumaru from Perona 3, Rapede from Tales of Vesperia, Dogmeat from the Fallout games, and the dog from Fable II. All dogs!

What are some of your favorites and how do they compare to Trico?

Does Ruby from Lunar count?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

I haven't played it but based on how cute she is I'll have to say OH MY GOD YES.

(She looks like Trico, too!)

[img width=480 height=360]http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lunarebrubylowqual_1153.jpg[/img]

I'm running behind again.  I know I've passed the first checkpoint, but I don't think I've hit the second yet.

I'm enjoying the game so far.  I get a little frustrated when I can't figure out what to do next, but I'm just not very patient.  :)

As far as the criticisms on Trico not obeying, I'm starting to see where that's coming from.  Sometimes I feel like I think I know how to progress, but when Trico doesn't obey my commands, I start to wonder if I'm trying to do the right thing.  Personally, I've found that less is more when it comes to commanding Trico.  Spamming commands tends to confuse the AI (or makes Trico disobedient, if they programmed it that way), and one simple command is usually enough to get him going in the right direction.  Many times he will often do the right thing on his own if I just leave him alone.

I'm a little late to the conversation, but I basically have to echo what's already been said. Although the controls may feel "sloppy" at times they also feel very appropriate to the game somehow. I had no issues with the controls of Trico either. Like has been mentioned it's not easy training an animal so it's kind of expected that they don't always listen to you or sometimes even misinterpret commands. I thought they did a great job making an AI that behaves as such. 

I liked the narration of your character as an older version of himself too. You'd think that would take away from the tension of "is my character going to survive this adventure", but since you're just as invested in Trico as you are with yourself I don't think it hinders that feeling very much.

When I was playing my family would occasionally watch and much like Rich's they would get really into it. Lots of tense moments when a guardian grabbed me or when I was forced to take a leap of faith and hope Trico would assist me. Even remember catching my wife grimacing in empathetic pain when pulling spears out of Trico. And the whole room, myself included, would occasionally tense up when making certain leaps because of the feeling of height. As with ICO and Shadow of the Colossus I continue to be very impressed with the amazing scale of the environments in these games. It's so cool to be alongside this enormous creature and still feel so pathetically minuscule compared with the ruins you're exploring.


I'd second Ruby from Lunar is an awesome companion. I've always liked Nakoruru's Bird companion in Samurai Shodown and more recently in King of Fighters XIV. I don't think it has a name or is even the same bird from game to game, but she's always been a very unique fighter because of it. Strider's Horde of mechanical animal companions in the Marvel vs Capcom games are some of my favorite special moves around. The Bear you could summon as a Druid in Diablo II was a beast too. He was great. The Prinny's in Disgaea are probably the most humorous animal companions of any game. Kirby's Dreamland 2's 3 animal companions blew my mind as a kid. The was a very unique idea at the time it seemed. Pikmin are pretty simple, but great companions. The robot animal companions you get in ReCore were surprisingly charming and actually had some personality to them as well, very surprising.

Peter from Earthworm Jim was a favorite of mine growing up also.

But hands down best animal companion has to be Rush from Mega Man. Dog can make you fly, shoot extra fire power, spring you to the full height of the screen, find hidden power ups, turn you into a beefcake that can punch through walls and give you submarine powers. He's amazing and Last Guardian would be a super easy game if you could Rush Jet around ;)

Poochi from the Yoshi games would get my vote as one of the worst examples of an animal companion though.

Thanks for the great comments this month everyone.  We will certainly be pulling from some of them during our recording this weekend!

The feels Crabby. THE FEELS!

So much FEELS!!!

The tree sequence was my biggest point of anger in the entire game.

Believe it or not, as I played through the game I probably could identify very much with Steven. I wasn't rushing, but I did feel lost every other five seconds. The difference between this game and ICO for me though, was it usually only took me a few seconds to relax my mind and discover what I needed to do, whether by letting Trico lead the way or slowly panning the camera around.

The biggest source of frustration for me was the room before the area that was total dark, where the train car is wedged under the door. It literally took me about an hour to realize that the boy could move that train car.

EDIT: The obligatory "Finish the game" checkpoint has been posted. Thanks for playing, y'all!

I'm really glad you posted that.  This was the exact spot where I left off the last time I played and gave up after a few minutes of stumbling around in the dark.

I still don't think I've reached the second checkpoint yet, but I am really enjoying the game.  For me personally, this has been one of those 'slow burn' type of games where I didn't enjoy it so much at first, but it grew on me after a while.  It seems that the more I play it, the more I like it.  It also really helps that the farther you get the more you learn Trico's nuances and better understand how to get him to do what you want.

So I just finished the game.  Despite any frustrations I had with it (I swear Trico was fighting me the whole way up those two towers close to the end...), I really enjoyed it overall, much more than I thought I would.  I'm really glad I chose to participate this month.  This is one I would probably never get around to otherwise.

I also finished it today, those towers were frustrating. I fell off a few times when he jumped.  But yes it was a good game.  Was it worth how long it was delayed in devolopment I'm not sure.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Glad both of you guys finished and enjoyed the game.

Same.

I'd like to talk about the ending and post-credits sequence now that everyone is finished with the game.

*******MAJOR SPOILERS INCOMING***********



As you will hear when the podcast comes out, I'll make it quite clear that the pre-credits ending was perfect for me. I was certain that the villagers would slaughter Trico right in front of me, so giving him the chance to get away offered a glimmer of hope that was just good enough. The comment by one of the villagers that Trico was so wounded that he would likely not survive made the whole situation so much more torturously tenuous, and I LOVED IT.

Then, they seemingly tacked on the post credits sequence that in a very cheesy way confirms that Trico survived. The guaranteed happy ending is why I have so little interest in American movies, tv, etc, and I was befuddled and disappointed to see it used here. Not to be too harsh, as I adored this game overall. It's not like it ruined it for me, but man, I wish they had just stuck with the open-ended conclusion and stopped there.

I already know Rich's stance on this and I'll certainly let him explain, but I'll preemptively respond by saying that his extenuating circumstances are not in any way relatable to me, and my experience in the context of my own personal tastes is what shapes my opinion of the ending.

PS - This show was running really long we didn't address the animal companions question. I'm sorry about that because I really appreciate the responses and I really wanted to acknowledge them. It just didn't happen.

In short, my kids watched me play the game, so that additional ending really saved my ass. My daughter before the final ending, "Why did you make us watch this? I hate you!"

However, I agree with Shawn. Would have been more powerful without that additional ending.

But, let me propose this....we enter into a dark cavern and only see some glowing eyes. Who is to say that these specifically belong to our Trico? Perhaps the reason we do not see the full figure is simply to let us know that this breed of fantastical creatures has survived. I think it can still be inferred that our Trico is deceased. Still, I'd find it unnecessarily uplifting. Nothing wrong with getting a little choked up. As long as kids aren't around.

I really expected Trico to die at some point in the game.  After that last sequence where he's being mauled by about a dozen other creatures for about 10 minutes (at least in my game since it took me about that long to figure out what to do), I thought there was little hope left for him.  I didn't need the game to have a happy ending, and thought it would have been really moving if Trico died right after bringing the boy back to his home.  Despite what the villager said about Trico, I thought it was obvious that he survived.  In pretty much all forms of media, you can't assume somebody (or something) is dead unless you see a body.

However, my interpretation of the post-credits scene was that Trico and the boy would reunite after some 40+ years.  It's obvious that they had an incredible bond after everything they went through, and I'm sure that the boy would have assumed that Trico was dead, so the idea that they could be together again after all this time was also pretty moving for me.  I wouldn't exactly call it a storybook 'happy' ending, since the boy (now a man) spent decades with the belief that the best friend he's likely ever had is dead (not to mention that he's probably an outcast thanks to those strange markings all over his body), and Trico spent all that time alone living in a dark cave.

Unless of course if Trico hooked up with a female Trico and had a bunch of Trico kids, but I only saw one pair of eyes in that final scene.   :P

The second pair of eyes are a bit less noticeable and have a less pronounced glow. I almost missed them myself.

We don't know if that was Trico, after the fight with the other beasts it looked like he got an eye removed.  He could have awakened another beast with his mirror shield and it's coming to take vengeance.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Eye was damaged in the fight and closed, but not lost. He reopens it in the village. Believe me, my damn kids were screaming at me about it....

Still, I love Doug's idea as a badass "what if" scenario.

Vengeance is good.

To me all three games (ICO, Shadow, Last Guardian) are about relationships. I believe that there are two relationships in the Last Guardian. The one between Trico and the Boy and the one between the two Trico's. To me the other Trico that hunted the boy and the Trico that helped the boy were male and female. During the ending cut scene the other Trico is shown at the bottom of the tower and acknowledges the other Trico. It seems fitting that the pair of Trico's are reunited after the evil that controls the mountain is destroyed.

Ah, I just went back and rewatched the post-credits scene, and I see the second pair of eyes now.  Totally missed them the first time.