RF Generation Message Board

Yes, that's right!  This is November marks our 100th game playthrough.  This is of course counts the very first playthough of The Last Story in December of 2012, the multiple games we played several months, and up to November's pick!  It's really hard to believe that we've made it this far and we want to thank all of you in our community who have participated and made the playthroughs a huge, communal success.  The game announcement is this Friday the 7th and we hope that we can max out participation for this grand feat.  Stay tuned!

PARTICIPANTS:
Crabmaster2000
douglie007
Fleach
GrayGhost81
MetalFRO
Pam
singlebanana

CHECKPOINTS:
*Please note that Chapters are not officially numbered, so a brief description of each final chapter will be provided*
Checkpoint #1 (November 1st - 7th) - Chapters 1 -13 *investigate the locker at the train station
Checkpoint #2 (November 8th - 14th) - Chapters 14 - 26 *interrogate the shrink
Checkpoint #3 (November 15th - 21st) - Chapters 27 - 39 *listen to the gravedigger's story
Checkpoint #4 (November 22nd - 30th) - Chapters 40 - 52 (or 53 if you have DLC) - finish the game

It's on, I will dust off my copy

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Cool!

I think I've been convinced to play along this month.

This is the only game I know where you can fail to lean against a wall.

Right on!

I just played through the game. Not impressed.

Spoiler (hover to show)

http://www.kongregate.com/games/kthorjensen/press-x-to-jason

Classic, but contains major spoilers.  :nono:

Ah, having never played the game, I didn't know. Very familiar with Press X to Jason though.

Spoiler (hover to show)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_56257iS77A&ab_channel=DeadWorkersParty

Time to get started ladies and germs.  Fire up those PS3s!

Weekly checkpoints are up!  Play ahead if you want, but please limit discussion until checkpoints are passed. Thanks!

I started playing today, went through 5 chapters so far. I have played this before and I remember liking it quite a lot - I've always liked cinematic and QTE-heavy games.

A few thoughts I've had going through again:
- The intro chapter to the game is soooo mundane. Almost an hour of wandering around a house or playing with kids. It doesn't do a whole lot to draw me into the story and makes me wonder what the initial draw was? I guess that it looked so good and was a rather unique game, especially if you hadn't already played Indigo Prophecy.
- The R2 to move thing initially sounds odd, but I found I got used to it really quickly.
- Jason... what a dumb kid.
- I like how all the voice actors sound slightly French, especially the kids.
- It's amazing how much Until Dawn seems to be influenced by this, from the extreme closeups on loading screens (or in the menu in UD) to the controls and action sequences.
- This is one of the only games where I don't hate the motion controls.

Another thing I thought about was how success and failure is handled in this game. Since most actions have a corresponding button to press, you can fail at a lot of things.  I'm generally pretty good at QTEs so I don't see many of the failures but at one point, when I was holding down two buttons to carry some groceries for Grace, I thought - what would happen if I let go? Would the groceries fall on the floor? It's interesting when failure can result in something not as severe as a game over but can impact what your character does or how characters react to them. But I still probably would never fail on purpose.

I'm still working on Castlevania SotN, but count me in on this.  I have the PS3 GH version, and from what I understand, it's not an overly long game, so I should be able to get through it this month.  I hope that's the case!

Finished the first checkpoint. I forget why Madison is a character in this game other than to run around in her underwear and be a love interest. It's strange that she was introduced so late, she (so far) doesn't seem to really have a stake in the story.

Sad to admit that I have not even started this game yet. Soccer has been on a rampage as of late; only two more weeks left thank God. However, the wife and I have planned to load it up tonight and get started, so I will report back shortly.  Thanks for playing guys, looking forward to discussing the first 13 chapters starting tomorrow.

I hate to admit it, but I finally started the game last night. My intent was to start earlier this week, but when I put my disc in the other night, I was treated to 3+ hours of updates on this game.........YAH! Modern gaming!  Anyway, I started it last night and yeah......I played up through Chapter 20.......needless to say, I'm dragging a little at work.

Pam, since you were so kind as to post your thoughts on the first checkpoint, I want to start off by addressing some of your comments.  I didn't find the opening chapter mundane at all. Now, I have to admit that I haven't played a lot of modern titles and other than Indigo Prophecy, none that primarily feature QTEs (SPACE MARINESSSSSSSSSS!!!....sorry bad flashback).  I think like many games, it does well in helping a newer player to this genre understand the mechanics and I think it also helps to develop the characters and provide you with some emotional attachment. Especially if you go outside and play with the kids.  This brings me to my next point.

The wife and I were very excited about sitting down and playing this game together. As I have spoken about on the podcast, we constantly get sucked into these murder mystery shows on TV like 48 Hours and Dateline, and we love series like The Killing and Broad Church.  However, when I started playing this and the mall scene ended, my wife turned to me and said, "I just can't watch this...."  I'm only speaking for myself, but I think playing a game like this is hard for a parent.  I had a similar instance a few years ago where we were at a cookout at a park and my daughter ran off with one of her friends and didn't tell us where she was going.  That moment of not knowing where she was, freaking out, getting friends to help us search, and running through a park with a few hundred people was probably the worst day of my life. Bad things run through your head and there is no bigger feeling of failure as a parent. I think that even though we didn't say it, this moment in the game brought that memory to the surface. Such is the power of games sometimes and as a result, my wife had to tap out.

While I agree that the prologue is filled with a good deal of mundane activities, I think it does a great job of quickly attaching you to this everyday family. In contrast, after the event, the depression and downfall of the family hits much harder.

Though I'm getting use to it, I'm not a fan of R2 to walk.  It doesn't make a lot of sense to me considering that most games just simply use the thumb stick. Not really sure why they felt the need to add an extra step, but it's only a minor gripe and I'm getting use to it fairly quickly.  Movement can be tricky sometimes and it gets where it switches in and out of frame and you find yourself going back and forth. Super annoying, but again, another small gripe (nowhere as bad as Shadow of Destiny) and something I have grown quite accustomed to in gaming.

Yeah..........Jason is quite the dumb and disobedient kid.  It irritates me when I see kids like this out in public and parents who don't.........okay.......that's a conversation for another time. :)

This is my first time playing the game and yeah, I'm already hooked.  I like the four fragmented stories and I think that having them keeps the game more interesting in terms of Chapter play.  You know that at some point they are going to come together towards a big climax and that's really motivating as a player.  The detective is probably my favorite character; he seems very brutish, but extremely compassionate. I want to know more of his backstory and have an inkling that he is tied to one of the victims. My least favorite character has to be the FBI agent. Not sure what all of this new high tech gear is about, but honestly, I think it's kind of lame and doesn't really jive with the rest of the game's atmosphere....if that makes sense.

Anyway, I'm really enjoying this playthrough so far and I'm sure I'll probably knock this game out pretty quick.  It's like getting hooked on a Netflix series.  I want to mention that when I originally outlined the weekly playthrough of this game, I did some research (I was super careful to avoid spoilers and am NOT using a walkthrough) and saw that it was broken up into Chapters.  However, I did not realize that these "Chapters" are not identifiable in the game, but are pretty much broken down by fans and used as walkthrough material.  As a result, I'm adding a brief description as I get to the end of each one so that everyone has a better idea of where to stop discussing the game.  

Thank you for the awesome comments Pam and I hope that more of you will give us your thoughts on the game. Thanks for playing!  

I finished the game last night. Wow, what a ride! I will be keeping my discussion of the game to the checkpoints as to not spoil anything for first timers. All checkpoints are now up in the initial post.

I played this years ago and adored it. Think I may finally run through again...

The interesting thing is, her shower scene was one of the things that got people talking about the game, buy why did no one mention the fact that, within 5 minutes of booting up the game, you had the character you control doing the same thing?  I was surprised by that, especially so early on.  Interesting that it never gets mentioned...

In any event, I played through to the 3rd checkpoint last night, over the course of the last few days, and holy cow, I'm loving this game.  I agree with you, banana, that the mundane tasks sort of flow as part of the overall game experience, and helps to draw you into the game's universe.  I was also surprised by how much I care about the characters in the game, much the way I do with a TV series or movie that is well written.  Not all the dialog and voice acting is to notch, because, let's be honest - the guy that voices Ethan could use a little work on his delivery.  But couple what is well done with the interactivity, and the story really comes alive.  The whole "murder mystery" vibe works pretty well, and I'm excited to see it through to its conclusion.  It's not a long game, but it's been an engaging one!

Did anyone else have the problem where you're unable to shower at the beginning of the game, because the action isn't available, no matter what you do?  It's a weird bug in the game, and it even affects the Director's Cut version I have, so it's odd they didn't fix that before the re-print.

EDIT:


I had similar feelings about incidents with some of the foster kids we've had over the years.  The game's design, the music selection, and the overall presentation really add to the tension and help simulate the sense of dread and panic pretty well.  I was genuinely concerned during that scene, so I think the game definitely nails that scenario.


I'm wondering if the R2 to walk thing is because the game was designed to be PS Move compatible.  It would make more sense, I suppose.  As you say, though, it takes a lot of getting used to.  During scenes where you're supposed to move quickly or they feel like time is short, it can be a major headache.


Word.

I was very excited to play this game again. I had no idea it was so long ago, but my original save is from April 2010! It's awesome to see everyone enjoying this experience, for the most part.

I wasn't expecting this game to age well. Some of the more dramatic moments fell flat even six years ago. I was pleasantly surprised to be affected by many of the scenes to this day, even though I knew what was coming the whole time and even though I was doing a "challenge" run.


Yeah...about that. Back in 2010 I played the game sincerely as best as I could, meaning I didn't want to fail anything, not even letting those snot-nosed punks beat me in the sword fight in the beginning of the game. Despite my best efforts, a secondary character was killed and I was very upset about it. Other than that, I got an a amalgamation of "good" endings (I'm sure we'll talk more about the way the endings work when we get there).

I always have a really hard time either being the evil character in a game or failing on purpose. However, during this playthrough I was determined to have completely different experience from the one back in 2010. Pretty early on I started thinking "I wonder what happens if you _______" at almost every scenario. I wanted to f*ck with the game more than I actually wanted to play it.

I also wanted to see if I could kill all four main characters.

I'll stop right there so as to not spoil anything. To touch on some of the points others have made, I love the mundanity of the opening scene as without it, the clash between the Mars' idyllic existence as a complete family and Ethan's down and out life which we flash forward to, would not be as easy to appreciate.

I actually like ARI a lot, even though Naaaahman Jayd'n is one of my least favorite characters (I liked Ethan even less as a character but his downward spiral was more interesting). ARI added some interesting and unexpected game play elements. Where Rich thought it detracted from the aesthetic of the game, I think ARI enhanced it, especially considering one of the major themes of the game is each character's grip (or lack thereof) on reality.

Yeah, I think that the game has a real "film noir" kind of vibe that makes me think back to the older classic movies. Heck, even a lot of the automobiles, especially Ethan and the detective's, and Scott's trench coat give it that feel.  For me, the ARI technology (one that is not even available now, not to mention when this game was released) fractures my believability and kind of breaks down that wall that makes me feel like I've escaped into this game.  Its presence reminds me that "I am playing a game," which I don't really like. However, I can see the enhancement of the theme that you are talking about with "each character's grip on reality" and how this addition plays into it. I like the "drug" issue presented in that it helps create the agent's flawed character, which is always more attractive in terms of the story. However, I think a more simple addiction (not one to technology) would have been a better fit.  Just my thoughts, but I really appreciate you presenting another side to it.

@MetalFRO - I guess I kind of get where you are going with your thoughts on the nudity in this game, but seeing Ethan's posterior compared to Madison's breasts is a bit apples to oranges IMO.  What's often dubbed the "male lens" is a term coined to describe the male aesthetic presented in film; in this case a game that is for all intensive purposes, an interactive film.  The problem that I think that some have with this is the presentation of the characters. Sure there is a shower scene with the male character at the beginning, but the area shown is IMO and I think for many others, less "private" and sexually distinctive than his female counterpart.  While men don't have a concern with exposure up top, to many women, exposing this area is taboo. I don't want to speak for how women feel or think of course, as I clearly have no common experience or right, but I'm just recalling some of the literature on the male lens I have read in terms of how much more overexposed women are in film than men to make a point.

Also, I just wanted to say that I am really glad that you are playing this game and had some of the same sort of feelings that I did in terms of the opening scene and the peril of the children.  Though I really enjoyed this game, it was very tough for me in parts and made me reflect on what lengths I would go to in terms of saving my kids.  Pretty powerful stuff!

So I said I wouldn't fail on purpose, but I did lose the swordfight to Jason at the beginning because I wanted to give him a happy day because I knew what was coming.

GrayGhost, I'm very interested in hearing what happens when you do fail on purpose. This time around during the driving sequence I failed a lot (not on purpose, just bad timing) and I don't think anything different happened. There are clearly places where the main characters cannot die (I assume most places or else the story would stall out).

I really enjoy the intensity of Ethan's scenes when he starts getting the challenges. It's not so strong this time around but I remember when I first played, driving down the wrong side of the highway was exhilarating. The one in the power factory didn't require as many twitch reactions, but I enjoyed the difficulty of holding down all those buttons at once to get through the power lines. Even though I find most of the game suffers from a lack of consequences, doing these scenes still make me super anxious.

I don't mind Norman as a character and ARI doesn't bother me. However, Norman's cop partner is a bit much. I end up rolling my eyes at how over the top he is in every single scene he's in. Madison is still my least favourite character because, again, I don't understand why she's in the game. I'm more than halfway through and she is the only playable character who has no real stake in the story. She really seems like she's just there to patch up Ethan, appear in various states of undress and

Spoiler (hover to show)

give a reason to put an awkward, Barbies having their heads mashed together, interactive sex scene later on.

One thing that keeps going through my head - who the hell hired Scott? PIs don't work for free.

Yeah, I kept thinking the same thing. Scott has some sort of connection to this whole thing aside from wanting to be helpful.  He keeps saying that he has experienced the same sort of loss, so I think that he is somehow tied to one of the multiple victims.  This would explain why he isn't being paid.

I want to look over a walkthrough and give a better analysis for up to the second checkpoint. I want to review the chapters to make sure I don't discuss anything that happens for weeks 3-4.  :o

CHECKPOINT #2 THOUGHTS

In Chapters 14-26, things seem to liven up a bit when Ethan discovers the intention of the Origami Killer (i.e. How far will you go to save your son?)  There are five challenges that Ethan must face and here we encounter the first two.  I was able to make it safely through the first challenge, but the second proved to be difficult, as I chose a poor path through the electrical field and got my fingers crossed up in holding down buttons. I eventually failed the 2nd challenge, which ended up being my only failure during the entire playthrough (no spoilers, so more to come next week).  The idea of self-inflicted torture is unsettling and I can't help but to think that Ethan and the other parents of missing children have some connection to the Origami Killer and have possibly wronged him in some way. As a result, they must be punished.  Not sure why Ethan has set up shop at the hotel, since he hasn't been considered a suspect for his child's disappearance yet, but whatever, I guess it may help him in the long run.

Norman has some exciting scenes that are pretty interactive where you are investigating two possible suspects.  I accidentally brained the first guy. The R1 icon showed up on my screen and of course thinking that it was a demanded action and not knowing what it would do, I shot the guy.  I was pretty upset about this as it didn't seem to me that shooting the guy was in Norman's character and I feel that I have betrayed my playthrough.  I'm kind of pissed and wished that the game had warned me of what this action would be; this sucks! I hope that the consequences aren't too severe for this action.  Anyway, I managed to take the second suspect down without incident.

The Scott scene was pretty dramatic and as a new (well 3rd time..) Dad, pretty tough to watch.  Seems Scott is familiar with kids and may have lost one. This further pushes me to believe that he has ties to one of the victims in this case.  He's still my favorite character in the game and I'm hoping to draw out more background on him.  Lauren has worked her way into joining the "team," and I feel like Scott is getting close to her and will have to save her from harm at some point.  Time will tell. 

crap I still need to start haha. If I remember correctly it's only like a 6-ish hour game? It's been years since I've played.

I can see your point.  I just think it's weird that NO ONE mentioned it when the game came out, and while female nudity has been common in cinema for a long time, male nudity has been far less so, and again, female nudity has crept into video games over the last decade or so, but until more recently, male nudity in games hasn't been much of a thing.  So to me, it's a big deal, because it's breaking the mold in that way, plus it's something you can literally see within the first five minutes of game play.  Either way, it's an interesting situation.


Yes, an excellent question!

In any event, I'm well into checkpoint #3 territory as of my last play, so I'm hoping to finish the game either this evening, or tomorrow.  I'm really anxious to see how it all wraps up!

It's not as much fun as I was hoping. During some of the major sequences like driving down the wrong side of the highway, or chasing down the second suspect, I put the controller down and did nothing. The failure that resulted meant I missed a lot of content. Ethan's car runs off the road. Norman loses the suspect.

My favorite "failure" was at the finger cutting scene. After the cut scene played, I walked straight to the door and the option popped up to leave. I left and laughed my ass off for a few minutes.

A few other times I wasn't so successful. If you try to make Madison give Ethan the sleeping pills while she is mending him, she has an interior monologue along the lines of "what am I thinking?" and won't do it. That was kind of disappointing. Don't give me that choice and then block me from making it.

super interesting GrayGhost. I always play games as super-duper-good-guy. So hearing what could have happened is neat.

Wow, so many great comments to catch up on!

This is my second time playing through the game so I took a slightly different approach. During my first time I played as best I could trying to keep all my characters alive, but I did lose one. I kind of took the story at face value and didn't really dig too keep into getting to know my characters (I have a son to save, there's no time to learn someone's history). Basically, Ethan's sense of urgency really got to me.

This time around the intro scenes at home felt more mundane but that's because I knew what was coming.

I'm going to get back to reading all the comments and continue talking about this game with you guys.

I finished the game today. I'll leave most of my comments until after the last checkpoint, but I changed the way I played based on what GrayGhost had to say and I manged to get two characters killed in the checkpoint 3 chapters and as a result the rest of the game went by a lot faster.

That is hilarious. Heavy casualties in Heavy Rain LOL ☔ ☔ ☔ 💀💀💀

You guys are demented.......... :P

OK, been powering through this in the last few nights, and caught up checkpoint wise. Did the whole club thing and kids grave bit.

Having played the Telltale games before this, I prefer that style to this. If the story is really the main driver (there isn't much "game" here), then I would prefer simpler prompts. I've managed to work my way through them rather well, but even though I get the idea of tying my fingers in knots to try to simulate the characters movements, after a while I get tired of it and just wish I could choose options.

I've managed to keep everyone alive and going well, without much trouble doing the QTEs. Earlier in the game it seemed like what I was doing didn't matter much, but I can see the stakes get higher later on.

As to the characters, the only one I am invested in is Scott. He's well acted, and I enjoy the private eye aspect of the game more from his perspective than I do from Norman's. The traditional approach to hunting down clues and the way he treats Lauren make me really want him to do well. The part with the suicidal mom and baby did a great job at humanizing him. Also, I really liked the part in the clock shop, where you had to remember all the places that you had touched. It had the right level of stress for me, and I probably spent more time than I should have looking everything over, but I think I must have done a decent job because it hasn't come back to bite me yet. Also, I'm not sure if he has a problem with alcohol, but I've been given the impression that he may have struggled with it in the past. I make sure to not let him drink whenever possible. That probably sounds silly, but again, he's the character that I care about.

The other characters leave me feeling very flat. I have reached the point where I don't really even like Ethan anymore and it was rather entertaining making him cut off his finger. The long 5 minute timer was given to make you think hard about it, I'm sure, but I grabbed the knife and alcohol, rinsed his hand off, and whack! I've been tempted to let him die, but I want to see him through his tortures. I've passed each one so far, and just the last one to go through. I thought that he might die when I pushed him off the ledge when the cops were after him, but nope.

The angle with Ethan and Madison really doesn't make any sense to me. I get the part that she wants to get the story, but how did she track him down to the motel in the first place? Did I miss that part? Also, that scene in the creepy doctor's house? Full of nope.There was no way I was going to drink what that nut job gave me. I still can't figure out why she is doing all of these things alone. It makes sense for Ethan to be alone, but for Madison it's just a bad idea.

Good cop and bad cop are probably the worst. I still don't have any idea what kind of drug that Norman is supposed to be on, or why, or how it could kill him. I don't even remember bad cop's name. If there was an option to shoot him I'd probably take it. With Scott doing such a great job in the story of chasing down the real killer, these two knuckle heads are just going to beat up half the town to try to bungle their way into it. Managed to keep Norman alive though, which has been tough. About lost him at the car place, and again when the origami killer came to the club.

Lauren is an odd addition, and while she doesn't do much for me as a character, she does give the opportunity to Scott to shine. The part when she was standing in the rain and you could comfort her was good. I wrapped her up in the coat, and felt like that was just right. I'm not sure if it is possible for something to happen to her or if she is just the default side kick, but I'm alright with her tagging along.

Regarding the nudity, I didn't think much of it until the really weird mannequin sex scene between the two. The shower scenes were just people taking a shower, and I'm not sure that you even really had to make Madison take a shower at all. I do want to give the game big props for letting me use the bathroom at every opportunity, and letting me wash my hands when done.

Duke, I feel about the same with regards to the characters. Ethan's not particularly sympathetic. Obviously he's depressed over losing his son, but at the beginning of the game I kinda wanted to yell at him for not paying more attention to the son who was still alive. While I don't particularly like him, I like his chapters, they're the most exciting and make the most sense from a story point of view. I feel like a lot of the chapters with characters who aren't Ethan seem to come out of nowhere. Like, what brought Scott to that rich guy's party? Why was Madison at the Doctor's house? There's usually some brief mention of a suspect or something but many of these chapters just seem like a half-assed way of introducing another action scene. 

Madison is still one of the worst written and least necessary characters I've seen in a game though. Did it say somewhere that she's chasing the Origami Killer story and I just missed it? I could have sworn she said she was a photographer when she first met Ethan (and they just happened to be checked into the same hotel, she didn't track him down). It seems like she just patches him up and only becomes involved in the game events because of him. I'm not even sure how she got to the Doctor's place - what led her there? How did she know the address of one of the places Ethan had been? Madison died at the Doctor's place in my game. I really had to try and get her killed though. I didn't drink, but I did get knocked out and tied to a table. I had one chance to get out while he answered the door. Then a second chance as he answered the door again. Finally when he was chasing me around the room he planted the buzz saw into her back. Then I got to watch an overly long scene of him fondling her corpse and laughing maniacally. Yuck.

Pam, like you I can't figure out how on earth Madison is supposed to know about Ethan. I have to conclude that she just really does go to motels to deal with her insomnia and just the story of the century just fell directly into her lap. As to how she found the doctor, at the very beginning of that part in my story, she was talking to someone else on the phone that gave her the info for the doctor's house. They had tracked it down as the owner of the apartment building that Ethan cut his finger off in. I'm guessing the guy she was talking to was some journalist contact. It still doesn't explain why she would just go alone to a potential killer's house.

As far as Scott going to that party, it seemed like he had some prior awareness that the guy was a little nuts. I have to assume that it goes back to his police days, but they really could have made it clear.

I left the creepy doctor's house as Madison after I found the club information, and I had no idea that things got that twisted if you stayed. Her death scene sounds really disturbing. Does the game just keep using her as a sex object every opportunity it gets?

I agree that Madison's character doesn't get developed well enough in this game and I think that much of the problem lies there.  It seems that they planned more development for her character, but much of it was cut. Why, who knows?  To learn a little more about it, I suggest watching this video that Shawn sent to Floyd and I, which show some of the very interesting stuff that was cut out of the game, including a small blurb about Madison. HOWEVER, DO NOT WATCH THIS VIDEO IF YOU HAVE NOT FINISHED THE GAME, MAJOR SPOILERS:

Spoiler (hover to show)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FsYF9quOZE

There are parts of Madison's character that I really like.  I really like that she is a bada@$ and seems to really be able to handle herself. She is also a beacon of light in a quite literal world of gloom for Ethan, a guy who has lost almost everything and is on the verge of losing it all.  I get that the writer's probably felt a "need" to put her in the game for this reason, but I think that a lack of backstory and some choices in her presentation objectify her character.  I really didn't see the need in some of the nude scenes, and quite frankly, using the motion controls to initiate a simulated sex scene made me feel very uncomfortable.  I was ultimately glad that I didn't have to actually simulate the act.......Geez.  I honestly don't hate or dislike her character, but I do feel that out of the four playable characters, she is the most ill-defined.

As far as the doctor's house goes, I thought that the scene was completely unnecessary and vulgar. And as we discuss on the podcast, what city has 4 serial killers living in it and acting at the same time?  And secondly, what are the odds of two of them being randomly connected?  The logic boggles the mind.  I thought this scene as merely added to create drama and tension, when in fact, it really just took away from the overall narrative.  Just to note, Madison was at the doctor's house because he owned the building where one of the trials took place and she was investigating to see if she could get the identity of the Origami Killer from him.

Unfortunately, Heavy Rain suffers a bit from poor decisions by the developers, especially their focus.  Some of you might have played the DLC Taxidermist episode (if not, DO NOT buy it).  It was the only additional episode that was released and more were planned, but the developers decided to focus on the Motion Controls instead.  It seems that they had some pretty cool episodes planned and that these would have helped to develop the characters more.  In the Taxidermist, we get a pre-Ethan scene where Madison is checking out a possible Origami Killer suspect.  This would lead us to infer that she is chasing this story prior to meeting Ethan.

I'm looking forward to the podcast, and I'll check out that video. It does get silly how many murderers there are in this game. I know the game is going for that noire vibe, but there's a big difference between "no good guys" and "everyone wants to murder everyone else." The chapter after Madison got killed by The Doctor I also got Norman killed by the guy at the junk yard.

First rule of Serial Killer Club....

Anyway, after I finish I am really curious to know if all the main characters can get killed off, and what happens at that point. I'm going to guess that the Origami Killer high-fives his other murder buddies at their clubhouse.

Serial killers need friends too

I stayed up late and finished it. There was definitely one big surprise in there for me. I'll talk more after it's safe to do so.

IS IT SAFE?

[img width=600 height=347]http://1.images.spike.com/images/blogs/Movies/2011/06/07.jpg?quality=0.91[/img]

Well, November is over. Time to share your thoughts on the game and the ending. :)

Yay, I've been looking forward to discussing the end. The first time I played this game I got what I assume is the best ending - saved Sean, everyone (who wasn't a serial killer) lived, Ethan and Madison walked off into the sunset together. This time I was determined to screw things up. So:
- Madison got killed by the psycho killer doctor
- Norman got killed in the very next chapter by the psycho killer junkyard guy (he got crushed in the car compactor)
- Ethan was captured by the police at the hotel
- Scott didn't save Lauren and she drowned
- Sean died
- Origami killer went free

I ended up missing most of the chapters in the last quarter of the game because everyone was dead. I have a lot of thoughts though. The gameplay really takes a turn towards murder-heavy action in the last 3rd or so. I hate to use the phrase ludo-narrative dissonance, because it just sounds so pretentious, but I think this game is the poster child for it. At the start, the action makes sense. Ethan's challenges fit with the story, the occasional police//FBI chase fits, Scott getting into a fight or two is good (Madison's action scenes not so much, but nothing about her character is good). By the end though, everyone is out to murder you. The Doctor scene was unnecessary and excessive, the junkyard guy had killed before and now has no qualms about killing an FBI agent, the rich dude's dad tries to murder Scott and Lauren and then Scott just straight up murders 20 bodyguard-types who were just doing their job. Then, 2 minutes later it's supposed to be a difficult choice to let rich dad die by not giving him his medicine, after he says some truly heinous things about children being killed. The secondary villains are all such caricatures.

And this brings us to our primary villain - Scott. It makes no sense that he was the killer. Why was he investigating the killings? Just to get evidence back from the victim's families? The police didn't seem interested in any of it anyway. How did he manage to kill the clock shop guy without Lauren hearing anything? Why didn't he just kill his own worthless dad to get over his brother's death rather than more innocent kids? Or become a serial killer of other douchebag dads? I liked a lot of Scott's chapters but given the knowledge that he's the killer, none of them make sense.

In the end, Ethan was believed to be the origami killer and put in jail. He also seemed to believe he was the killer as he filled his cell with origami, before hanging himself.  Madison was talked about in a news broadcast, saying she was killed investigating the case (so the Doctor just put her body out where someone could find it? And how would anyone know she was investigating the case?). The jerk police officer put on Norman's AR glasses and was then greeted by Norman (what?). Scott walked free, who knows if he's going to kill more kids.

I liked playing this game but it's one where it's best to turn your brain off while playing. There are way too many glaring plot holes and poorly written characters.

I got the same "good" ending that Pam mentioned above. Even though I felt like I "won" I really didn't care a lot about the outcome for most of the characters. The weirdest part was Norman sitting at his desk with his VR glasses, then takes them off to rest his eyes. VR tanks come at him without the glasses on. WOAH, THE MATRIX HAS HIM. Also, the lame killer falls into the crusher bit at the end. Meh. I was just kind of glad to be done.

I didn't see the Scott as killer bit coming, so I give the game some points for that. I can see why he had to become a Private Eye after he left the police. While he was a police officer he could cover his own tracks, but when he retired he needed some way to clean up after himself. Again, I think he was still the best character in the game, even if he was a killer. I'm not sure if his feelings were genuine  towards Lauren, or just a way of keeping himself safe. I'm guessing the latter. The one thing that doesn't make much sense to me is the poison test. That was very elaborate and expensive. It didn't seem to me that Scott was a techie, so I'm not sure how he could afford to set all that up and broadcast it to himself. Also, what did he do with all the other dad's he murdered? Why didn't the police care at all about those deaths, or figure out the link to the Origami Killer kids? It would seem ridiculously suspicious that all the fathers disappeared right after their kids got killed. Am I to assume that most of the fathers just never tried to save their child? I agree with Pam, it would have made a lot more sense if he just went after other alcoholic loser dads. Lastly, the kid never thought about a straw or anything, eh? Seems like he had a lot of time to save his brother. Maybe brainstorm next time.

Ethan. Where to start? After I watched the video that Rich linked, he made a lot more sense to me. Without it he just doesn't make any sense at all. He magically warps to death scenes and makes origami animals when he blacks out? They could have made that figurative and it would have made more sense. Blacking out during the times of the murders could be enough to cause suspicion I suppose, so the story couldn't be worse than how it ended up. Also, since I didn't do it, it seems like you can find the address at the end from Madison, Ethan, and Norman. If you don't do any of the trials, could Ethan keep himself from getting beat up and finger amputated and still rescue Sean?

I don't have anything else to say about Madison that I didn't before. I liked Lauren as a character much more than her. They both were hanging out with crazies, but at least I understood Lauren's motivation.

What was the purpose of the rich guy and his son to the plot, other than to be a decoy? Why did Scott want to get involved with them at all? It just seemed to be a way to draw unwanted attention to himself. He obviously isn't going against them for moral reasons.

Overall, I think I had a decent time with the game for what it is, but like Pam said, it's best to just check your brain at the door. Enjoy the ride for what it is, and don't bother trying to make sense of it. Press X to Jason.

That's a good point about the fathers - no one made the connection between the kids getting kidnapped and the dads going missing?! Did the convenience store owner just not accept the killer's challenges or never open the figures to find the challenges? Seems like he was the only one not missing. The police were just totally incompetent. Why wouldn't they take the box of origami figures from the convenience store owner? It seems like a pretty key piece of evidence. And the suspects they had (other than Ethan) seemed to come out of nowhere.

I read some of the summaries of the chapters I missed this time around and was unfortunately reminded of the one where Madison has to strip at gunpoint for the club owner. How her character is used makes me so mad.

I just watched the video about the removed supernatural elements. A spiritual connection caused by witnessing Jason die seems a little tenuous, but I guess it makes a little more sense and I like that idea more than Ethan just being crazy. The game definitely would have benefited from the scenes mentioned with Madison going to her newspaper office, then she would at least give her a reason to be involved in the events of the game.

That scene just goes along with the others that really make her just a sexual object to have in the story. As a reporter, hasn't she had to think of creative ways to get information before? I managed to knock the guy out before I had to take anything off, but I can only imagine how far the game lets you go if you mess up the prompts. It would have been better if she could have outsmarted the obviously oafish bad guy. David Cage just didn't try hard enough on this story, or perhaps he needed a competent co-writer.