RF Generation Message Board

Crabby is AWOL again, so we've brought in Shawn from the RFGPlayCast to lend a hand as we chat about PlayStation 2. We've got a great bunch of questions, and fantastic games to discuss.

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Show Notes
Links
Our Sponsor - Off The Charts Video Games: http://www.otcvideogames.com/
Shawn Gray on Twitter: @MrShawnGray
RF Generation PlayCast on Twitter: @RFGPlayCast

Music: Gradius V (PlayStaton 2)
Q & A - 14:54
Topic - 1:24:25
Outro - 3:40:10

Excited

(Whoops, this isn't the Word Association game?)

Looking forward to this!

I would like to hear more from those "Spare Canadians"

@Duke: The name of the game you were looking for is "The Witness"

http://store.steampowered.com/app/210970/

I'm sure we will see headlines of Man robbed while wearing VR headset, or man seriously injured while wearing VR headset soon....

If you want to know more about the Coleco Chameleon listen to:

http://www.retrogamingroundup.com/shownotes/2016/roundup099_2016.03.php

@Duke & Bill@earthlink.net: Bloodstained Ritual of the Night:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/iga/bloodstained-ritual-of-the-night

I didn't own a PS2 until GTA 3 came out and convinced me I should own one.

It is now 14 years, and over 200 games later I'm still playing it.

The install base was big enough that developers were trying all sorts of new ideas just to see what stuck.... Katamari Damacy, Mr Mosquito, A Dog's Life.

Raw Danger  :)

@Duke: The game you are thinking of is Pinball Arcade by Farsight Studios.

Apparently they produced Action 52 & Color a Dinosaur

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FarSight_Studios

http://www.farsightstudios.com/

Yakuza 2!   8)

Yakuza 3 has a story recap if you're looking for a cheaper way to jump in to the series.

I'm with Duke on FF6. The music on the FF6 GBA port isn't as good.

I'll second the g-x2d11 controller.

PS2!! :)

Excited for this one.

Great episode! You covered so many games I love. I'm planning on making a top 5 PS2 video soon and this episode has given me some food for thought. My first game on PS2 was ESPN NFL 2K4.

Did anyone mention Beyond Good and Evil or the Fatal Frames?

Love the mention of Shadow of Destiny. I just picked this up recently but haven't played it yet. It sounds really cool and I'll have to bump it up on my to-play list.

Re: that chest in FF12...hoo boy. That made me so mad. When I found out about that, 15 hours in, I quit immediately and never played again. Of course, I hadn't really been liking it anyway, so that was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

Sadly, you're all wrong... FFX-2 is the best Final Fantasy. :D

nope, don't believe anyone mentioned Beyond Good and Evil or Fatal Frames.  I played few hours of Beyond Good and Evil and wasn't crazy about it.  As for Final Fantasy X-2...Let's just say that everyone is welcome to their own opinion ;)

That's the one. Yeah, that much and no physical version? Nope.


I keep getting this all twisted up with Bloodborne in my mind. Too bloody much blood.


I'll be looking forward to the next pinball game where "It takes 2" makes its debut. Seriously though, these guys really know how to do pinball right.


Of course you are! Wise man...

Also, as to hearing more from those spare Canadians, perhaps we could invite them back at some time. Pam seems very busy making the podcast rounds, but maybe she'll get the gumption to do her own show at some point.


No - another oversight. I haven't played either of those either. There are a lot of gaps in my PS2 play history. I did forget to mention Ring of Red, but I'll probably be alone on that one.

So salty that I missed this discussion :(
Shawn did a great job representing actually good games though ;) Fire Emblem and Persona 3 shout outs did me proud!!! He seems to have the number 3 confused with 4 though as BOTH Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 4 and Persona 4 are vastly superior to their 3rd version counterparts ;)

Shawn you and your wife should try Silent Hill Shattered Memories. I used to be in the 2 was the best camp until I played that one. So amazing!

Getting into the PS2 -
I don't remember making a big deal out of picking up my first PS2. I think I may have picked it up specifically to play Final Fantasy X after finishing up some of the FF games on the PS and then Kingdom Hearts shortly after finishing FFX so I probably got it early 2002. I remember picking up Kingdom Hearts from a Future Shop while on a road trip with some high school friends and just ignoring everything/one around me for the remainder of the trip while I read the manual/box and imagined the world I was going to get into. Was a very special game for me and definitely that moment where I really was excited and loved owning a PS2.


Top 10:

10. Devil May Cry - God of War fell flat with me too (Shawn representing again!). This was the action game that really pulled me in. Put so much time into trying to get the best rank of each area and one of the first 3D games I played with such a dark atmosphere that I really hadn't experienced yet. Had a big inpact on me. Such a shame that the sequels weren't quite as good.

9. Onimusha 1/2/3 - Another amazing Capcom experience. After playing a ton of Resident Evil 2 and 3 I was looking for something comparable on the PS2. Onimusha hooked me right away as a great substitute. While not quite a survival horror game it really filled that void for me anyway. Super amazing atmosphere and story. Very tense the whole way through. And unlike Devil May Cry they kept getting better. As unusual as the 3rd one is with having control of two different characters in two different settings/time periods/stories they made it work. Such a cool series and one I'd like to see return.

8. Disgaea: Hour of Darkness - A very cool blend of strategy and humor. Most strategy games I've played were very intense story and character-wise. Big military endeavors with dark themes of loyalty and patriotism. Disgaea was such a departure from that idea that I was hooked right away. You play a prince of hell and are just trying to build your strength to become supreme ruler. The voice acting was hilarious and so comical. Prinny's and Laharl I just couldn't believe existed as characters. So inappropriate and non-sensical. I think this short video sums up my love for the game nicely:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsSLQ-YYCBo

7. Castlevania Lament of Innocence - Still one of my favorite Castlevania games in the entire series. The first thing that hooked me was the soundtrack. Amazing levels like the Anti-Soul Mystery Lab and its music pulled me in immediately. There are only a few games that have story twists that have stuck with me over the years. Like less than 5. And this is definitely one of them. At the time it was the earliest game in the series chronologically (havn't kept up to know if that still holds true), and they touch on the creation of the famous whip from the series, the vampire killer, which just blew my mind that they were even aloud to be as dark and sinister as they were in the forging of that weapon. I stand by that this is still the greatest 3D Castlevania game yet/ever.

6. Kingdom Hearts - Unlike Bil I find Kingdom Hearts II unplayable. Just can't do it. The first one holds a very special place in my library though. Besides the amazing amount of nostalgia that I was attacked with I got pulled into the story very early too. Such a perfect blend of the Square and Disney franchises that I loved. One of the earlier games I felt the need to 100%. Remember spending a ton of time building up so I could defeat a titan from Hercules and then Sephiroth from FFVII. My only dislike was the gummy ships, but I eventually realized I could finish the entire game without spending a second building a new ship so that kind of got rid of that complaint :)

5. Odin Sphere - Like Duke mentioned it can be very easy to get pulled into a world of mythology like he did with God of War. I had that experience getting pulled into the amazing world of Norse Mythology with Odin Sphere. I also hold this as the pinnacle of visual in a video game. The game is getting close to a decade old now and I've yet to see any other game look as good. The crafting and battle systems were intensely addictive too. You play a large overarcing story with several different characters such as a Valkyrie, a Rabbit Knight, a Fairy, a Demonic Knight and a Witch. Was so cool seeing how different each character and their stories were, but how they eventually all tied together.

4. Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance I&II - After playing a ton of Diablo and Diablo II I thought the genre was stuck solely on the PC. Blew my mind when a friend invited me over to play Dark Alliance for the first time. I immediately ran out and purcahsed both of them and played each to completion. And then again with a friend and a new character. And then again with the rest of the characters. And then again with the secret characters. And then again with my brother and my favorite character builds. It doesn't have quite the depth in terms of customization as Diablo, but that has never bothered me. It has an amazing D&D style story and each characters play so different that each run felt like a new game. One of the best co-op PS2 games I've ever come across

3. Xenosaga 1/2/3 - As much as I enjoyed a few other RPGs on the system I was still craving that "special" RPG series that really spoke to me. FFX was great, FFXI and XII fell flat with me. Kingdom Hearts was great, KHII stunk. Disgaea was amazing, D2 got much more complex in it's systems and started to lose me. Having played and loved Xenogears I was suprised I didn't know about the Xenosaga series until shortly after the 2nd one came out. My girlfriend at the time purchased the first game for me and it was exactly what I needed. It was one of those games that just pulled me in and I ended up being a pretty crappy friend for a bit basically ditching life for a week so I could keep playing. Most other RPGs I've played were very fantasy based. To find one that was Sci-Fi was just amazing to me. The characters were all amazing too. It didn't have that super lame/cheesy main character and the supporting case was super diverse from a battle ready android (KOS-MOS), to a Cyborg (Ziggy) sworn to protect a Realian (MOMO) to a childish looking gunslinger/director of a major intergalactic organization (Jr) to a mysterious spiritualist (Chaos) to a young Scientist (Shion) I found myself bouncing around with my team selection rather than just picking my favorite three as I do in most games. I kept having to experiment with teamates as I couldn't decide who to keep going with!

Fast forward to August 2006. I had just recently moved in with my wife to be and Xenosaga III was about to come out. I prepped her well in advance and basically said "There is this game coming out that I've pre ordered and I've book a few days off of work to play it. I'm gonna be spending a lot of time on it". She knew I was a big gamer and she didn't think too much of it. Big mistake. I got home and immediately put the game into my PS2 and dug in. Several hours later she apparently asked me to eat dinner with her and I declined (I have no memory of that). Then at 5am she came out of our bedroom and pleaded for me to come to bed and get a little rest since I had been playing for nearly 20 straight hours. I left the system on and came reluctantly went to bed.......only to wake up one hour later with no alarm set and continued to play again. I ended up finishing the game in about 42 hours of nearly straight playing other than that one hour of sleep and I assume a bathroom break or two. My wife was obviously relieved for it to be over and I spent then next couple days catching up on eating and sleeping and reflecting on the series. I've lost myself in games since then, but never quite to the same extent.

2. Guitar Hero/II/80s - It's like someone stole my dreams and developed a game based on them!! As a long time air/electric guitar player and lover of metal/hard rock I was immediately drawn to this game. I worked at a Roger's Video at the time and we hooked it up after work every day for weeks. I started getting better and better and by the time II came out I went from trying to beat the songs on Hard to trying to beat them on Expert. After that I had to 5 star each song. I spent endless nights during my graveyard shifts studying star power charts and uploading scores to scorehero.com comparing my scores against others online before I had ever heard of an online leaderboard. We argued about the best use of star power and the best spots to squeeze and extra 1-3 notes into a path in order to maximize scores once getting 100% just wasn't enough anymore. Spent weeks trying to 5 star songs like Jordon, Six, Hanger 18 and Free Bird.

The game started picking up steam in the general public and some contests started popping up around town. I competed in each and every one I was able to, always placing in the top 3. A couple short weeks ago a customer at my store was interested in buying a PS2 with a couple guitars and Guitar Hero Rocks the 80s and a few others. He was from out of town so asked if we could set everything up and test it with him so he could be confident that they worked before he left. We booted it up and started some No One Like You by the Scorpions. I selected Expert and he played Medium. After not playing in a couple years I was still able to nail the slightly tricky opening solo and we started to draw a little crowd in the store. It was so much fun to pick up those plastic guitars again that I've been craving it ever since.

1. SMT Persona 3&4 - After getting a little burnt out from long RPGs I had taken about a year off from playing them and just really struggled to get excited about one. I kept hearing good things about Persona 3 and the 4th one had just come out. Niether really peaked my interest though. Went to someones house to pick up some cheap PS2 games from a kijiji ad and picked up the 3rd one as well as a few other games one day. Brought them to work that night to test out. When I put Persona 3 into the system I didn't even get around to testing out the rest of the games. The intro alone hooked me and I ended up putting about 5 hours into it that night. The next night I got my work done asap so that I could sink as much time as possible into it once more. Just kept going back to it night after night. Typically when a game gets to the 30 hour mark I'm looking forward to it winding down and moving over to something new. That was definitely not the case with Persona 3. Every one of the characters was so fleshed out and they were all growing and changing with me. The humor and real life problems/situations were enthralling. The dungeon crawling parts where challenging and thoughtful. The social links were unique and added so much to the each of the game's social and RPG aspects. Spending time in the velvet room fusing personas into more powerful ones was surprisingly addictive. The story kept having interesting twists and kept me on my toes.

After finishing it around 75 hours I immediately started hunting for a copy of Persona 4. I was fortunate enough to find one withing a few short weeks of finishing 3 and started playing 4 the same day I picked it up. Even after putting in 75 hours into 3 I was so eager to spend another 70+ hours on 4. I had everything I loved about the 3rd one, but also had improved the battle mechanics, added entirely new characters, new story, new setting, and tons of new social links and places to visit and spend time. Characters like Yukiko, Kanji and Teddy really resonated with me.

Even after finishing both of them I was hungry for more and picked up Persona 4 Arena, Persona 4 Arena Ultimax, Persona Q and Persona Dancing All Night as they came out. I thought initially that they would be simple place holders to tide me over until the next main series game came out, but they instead were ways to spend more time with these characters that I had grown to love.


Honorable Mentions:
Adventures of Cookies and Cream
Amplitude
Castle Shikigami 2
Dark Cloud 1&2
Final Fantasy X&X-2
Godhand
Guilty Gear XX Accent Core Plus
ICO/Shadow of the Colossus
Katamary Damacy
King of Fighters Orochi Saga
Marvel vs Capcom 2
Mega Man Anniversary/X Collection
Neo Contra
Okami
Prince of Persia: Sands of Time
Resident Evil Outbreak
Shin Megami Tensei Nocture
Silent Hill 2&3
Star Wars Jedi Starfighter

Can't wait to play:
Haunting Ground
Blood Will Tell
.Hack
Gungrave
Rule of Rose
Wild Arms

Wow, Crabby.  Now I'm saltier that you missed the discussion, lots of interesting dialogue about a lot of great games here.  To Shawn's point on the show, it's amazing that you can have a completely different top 10 or 20 or 30 for the PS2 depending on who you talk to.  There are so many great games across so many genres that appeal to so many different types of gamers.  I feel like I didn't appreciate the PS2 when it was out, it's only years later that I can look back and see just how special it was.

I can't remember if we've ever talked about what makes KHII unplayable for you.  Story? Mechanics?  Would like to have that chat at some point.

There are a ton of games on your list that I haven't played but want to.

They pooped all over Vivi (Pronounced Vivi, not Veevee!!!), and the opening few hours of KHII are just horrendously boring and childish. I've never been able to play long enough to actually get the game started.

I loved Prince of Persia Sands of time like you did Bil, but I don't like referring to it as a Trilogy with Two Thrones and Warrior Within. Those two went way heavier on the action, and were less awesome puzzle/platformer focussed which I felt was where all of the magic was in Sands. I can't stand the sequels.

@Crabby: That's a great list of games! I'm glad someone mentioned the Onimusha series. Did you play Onimusha 4 aka Dawn of Dreams?

I would also recommend:

Shadow of Rome
Maximo Series
Gitaroo Man
Lifeline
Robot Alchemic Drive
The Nightmare of Druaga
Klanoa 2
Gladius
The Red Star
Breath of Fire V
The Ape Escape Series
PSI-Ops
The Suffering Series
Ghosthunter *** - I wonder how many people even know this title exists
Echo Night Beyond - from "From Software"
SkyGunner
Valkyrie Profile 2
Suikoden V

Imports:

Michigan Report from Hell
Glass Rose
Gregory Horror Show

If you see Blood Will Tell pick it up before it goes for more money than sense:

https://www.pricecharting.com/game/playstation-2/blood-will-tell

I just recently picked up Dawn of Dreams and Blade Warriors. Havn't come across them in my years of hunting and ended up picking them up not that long ago.

Picked up Ghosthunter not too long ago too and it does look interesting!

Skygunner is at the top of my wtb list. It's the last ATLUS game I need for the PS2!

Finally, someone else who loves the Gambit system from Final Fantasy XII !  It's probably the best indirect party control system in a JRPG, and it's a shame Square Enix haven't developed it in subsequent games.  I'm also hoping for a HD Remaster for XII, as the Japanese exclusive International Zodiac Job System fixed some of the complaints I had with the original, and the optional(?) Zodiac job boards add an interesting alternative to make characters more distinct from each other.

EDIT:
@Shawn (Shaun? Sean?):  The Final Fantasy X HD remakes (PS3/PS4/PS Vita) are based on the International version, whereas the North American PS2 isn't, so by playing the Vita version you will get the extra uber bosses and a couple of other changes.  The downside is that it is that there are a few ways you can get screwed over, so it really depends on whether you are more interested zipping through the story or want to take down everything.

Also, digging the JRPG love.

Down with the digital, viva la Physical!

To be fair, I never finished the sequels but I refer to it as a trilogy because Ubisoft does.  http://www.amazon.com/Prince-Persia-Sands-Trilogy-Version/dp/B001LKM0EW

Since this thread is about sharing podcast thoughts I thought it would be appropriate to share Bil's PM with me regarding Kingdom Hearts II


To be fair I've had similar experiences with games and gone back to them and once I was able to get past the opening few hours found a lot of enjoyment out of them. Chrono Cross being one of the biggest culprits. So maybe if I can get through the opening I'll enjoy the game more. My biggest concern though was them butchering Vivi's name. Is there a way to play with Japanese voice-acting and English subtitles?

Wow this thread is GODLY.

Thanks to everyone who stuck it out for the whole show (I'm still working on it LOL).

@Raidu: Thanks for the info on FFX and its remasters.

@Pam: I totally forgot about Beyond Good & Evil. To tell you the truth, I didn't like the game at all and upon completing it I traded it away.

@Crabby: Thanks for chiming in here, so many things I wish we could've talked about, the episode might have been seven hours long but it would've been worth it! So many games in your list that I want to try, especially the Disgaea series.

Damn, so many games listed in this thread. I just want to sell my entire collection except for PS1 and PS2 and just play those games for the rest of my life.

Still listening, have about an hour left.  I like what I've heard so far but want to wait until I hear the whole thing before listing my top PS2 games.

Great episode guys!  Can't argue with the PS2 being up there as one of the all time greatest consoles.  Its library speaks for itself.

Just wanted to toss out a few more titles that I don't think were mentioned on the show or in the thread yet:

Arc The Lad: Twilight of the Spirits - Great hidden gem RPG.  This one still goes very cheap on ebay, so I recommend picking it up if you see it.  I know Shawn mentioned being a big fan of Eternal Sonata, and if I remember correctly, the combat systems of these two games are very similar.

Obscure & Obscure: The Aftermath - These aren't technically the best games out there, but they're interesting because they are co-op survival horror titles.  If you're a fan of survival horror and can get a buddy to co-op it with you, there's a lot of fun to be had with these games.

The Warriors - This one was also released on the Xbox, but I've always played it on PS2 so that's the system I associate it with.  Very fun co-op 3D beat 'em up.  Given the source material, this game also has a great story to go along with it.

And I also wanted to list some of my favorites on the system:

.hack series
Final Fantasy X
God of War series
GTA series
Kingdom Hearts (surprising to put this game on the list, I used to HATE this game....)
Persona 4 (actually played this on the Vita, but I loved it so much.  haven't played 3 yet, but Shawn's endorsement is motivating me....)
Resident Evil CODE: Veronica X
Resident Evil 4 (although I really associate this more with the GameCube)
Rule of Rose (it's a great experience overall, but the combat is horrible, making it a chore at times)
Silent Hill 2 & 3 (*cough* 2 is better *cough*)

I'll chime in to defend Beyond Good & Evil. I loved it from start to finish. The characters were all dynamic and interesting. Loved the photo-journalism aspects and the politically charged story was super intriguing and full of unexpected twists. Few different types of game play kept it fresh throughout.

I have only played it on the GameCube, hence it's absence on my PS2 list. Had I associated it with the PS2 it would have absolutely made my honorable mentions and possibly cracked the top 10.

Ah yes, the Disaster game!  I forgot about that!  Great pick Shawn!

It looks like everyone is talking about the PS2 these days....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPP8Wah0sqk

I fired up KHII.5 to check this for you an I ended up playing it for hours on Saturday and Sunday.  Unfortunately, there doesn't appear to be an option to change to Japanese voices.  Maybe see if the Japanese version has English subtitles and import.  OR ignore it, Vivi is only in the very beginning so they won't say it again after you get past that point.

It's unforgivable!!!

I actually already have a Japanese copy. Just need a system for it to check :)

Great show, good timing for sure. They touched on many of the games we did.

Had a listen at work today. Great listen.

You yanks are so lucky you can get symphony of the night for $40. Here in Britain a disc and box copy will set you back at least £100 (about $160). A complete copy normally goes for over £200!

Can't believe the timesplitters series wasn't mentioned at all. Timesplitters 2 was phenomenal. Probably the best fps of all time. The third was also brilliant

I can't believe it either! Good catch!

Wow, that's almost Dracula X pricing. It pays to import.

First off I have to say the PS2 is a RPG player's dream.  That's what I love most about this machine.  Even if you didn't like RPG's you could find something to play.  This system had something for everyone.  You could not go wrong with the PS2.

1. Dog's Life -  A definite must play.  The controls may be wonky at times but I enjoyed it and have never played anything like it.  You control a dog looking for you girlfriend Daisy.  You explore the different areas looking for clues and compete in minigames for bones.  I really wish a sequel would come out for this one.

2. Beyond Good & Evil -  I've seen a bit of discussion on here on weather this is good or bad.  Personally, I enjoyed this one and can't wait for this sequel.  I can see why some people may not enjoy this one but this is definitely is a hidden gem.

3. Fatal Frame -  This is a must play.  I didn't think of this as a PS2 game until you guys mentioned this as this was a Xbox exclusive for awhile.  I've had plenty of scares with this game and it's a whole different view of survival horror as you had to face your demons to take pictures of them to capture them.  Lots of eery moments!

4. Ape Escape 3 - I always loved these games as they made you used both the analog controls. It took some getting used to but once you got the hang of it you will enjoy it.

5. Viewtiful Joe - Another great game but was probably forgotten because this was a Gamecube exclusive and is the only version I played. 

6. Wilds Arm 3 - A great RPG that probably got lost among the Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts of the system.

7. Taiko Drum Master - Taiko Drum Master was a great rhythm game.  You had a drum and two thick drumstick and you played the drum in rhythm with the music, notes would go along the field and you played the drum at the right moment.  Not sure how hard it is to find today but if you do find it you will not be disappointed.

8. Buffy the Vampire Slayer - Another I didn't think of as I had these for the Xbox but I thought they played great and stayed along with the TV show.

I didn't want to stay the obvious that many know such as Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts, Gran Turismo, Grand Theft Auto, etc.  There are also many games I'm curious about that I heard were good or unique but I never played.  Games such as Mr. Mosquito and Guitaroo Man.  Anyone played those games and have any thoughts?  Another game is Dark Cloud, how is that series?

Dark Cloud is OK and Dark Cloud 2 is amazing. I have it in my honorable mentions. Kinda takes off where Actraiser 2 left off and combines city building with some cool RPG dungeon crawling.

The sheer number of games makes the PS2 a phenomenal machine. Going off my memory of PAL numbers

PS2 - 2200 games
Xbox - 700 games (about 100 exclusives)
GameCube - 450 games (don't know how many exclusives. Maybe 100)

PS2 may have a lot of shovelware, but almost any 6th gen game can be played on the machine. In fact the number of exclusives is more than the total number of games on the Xbox and GameCube combined.

Plus, in my honest opinion, the dualshock controller family is the best ever.

Shaggy, I would've never thought of a Dog's Life as anything other than a kids shovelware title. You've piqued my interest!

I would definitely say, check it out!  Not the best obviously but I think it is a bit of a hidden gem, definitely not shovelware.  Now if they would make Cat's Life!

Ha! I would buy that in a heartbeat.

Speaking of which, looks like my prayers have been answered!

http://nisamerica.com/games/psycho-pass/

Glad to see you'll get your wish!

Better be physical...

That psycho pass reminds me of a certain "Nonary" game. Hope it's a similar experience to the zero escape series.

Same.

@Duke.Togo - I'm not finding the "Ultimate NES Lives" site - do you have the URL you can share?

 http://www.infiniteneslives.com/

Thank you, sir!

i don't have as much experience with the PS2 as i'd like, so i don't really have a top 10...i don't think i've even beaten 10 games for it. there are some amazing experiences i've had on it though, with games like Shadow of the Colossus, Call of Duty Finest Hour, Ico, God of War, Lord of the Rings The Two Towers.

a couple series that i haven't seen mentioned yet that i think deserve a mention, one is Sly Cooper. i don't have experience with this myself but have watched a friend play some of it and it looks like a solid platformer series. another is Star Wars Battlefront, such an awesome FPS/TPS. i played a ton of online and local multiplayer with the first game on PS2, and the second on PC. the co-op campaign is a lot of fun on the console versions.

I've head of Sly Cooper, but I've never seen or played it. It seemed to fall into the crowded mascot-ish Sony field of Ratchet & Clank, Jak & Daxter, etc. in look, so maybe that is what put me off.

YES! Before the industry threw-up a million GH/Rock Band spin-offs and instruments and (temporarily) killed off the genre with oversaturation, these were just awesome. I got started with all three as well, I remember buying the 80s game on release day and being super excited. Played I and II so hard too. I did like III a lot, but these will always have a place in my heart. Great selection Crabby.