RF Generation Message Board

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/hsn/20050414/hl_hsn/usexecutionsbylethalinjectionmaynotbehumane

To damn bad!!!!!!! It is not humane!!!!!!!!!!!! I am sure what the person did to get  the death penalty was not humane. So boo fucking hoo. I say injrection is to niceI thing. I want hangings and firing squads.

:pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed:

I'd prefer stonings and beheadings.

Beheadings are cool.
I would rather see tar and feather though.
Or boiling oil is cool to.
Anyone know the recipe for Greek Fire?

A firing squad and hanging would probably be more humane than this injection if performed wrongly.

why? why give such consideration when the prisoner clearly gave none to his victim/victims?

Maybe it makes them feel better about executing a punishment that's hardly humane in itself?

Fuck em, eye for an eye I say.

I agree with that 110%

Unfortunately the American Justice system isn't sophisticated enough to always correctly judge wether a certain person actually took out someone else's 'eye', and thus deserves to have his own 'eye' removed.

Guilty people are set free and innocent people are punished, given. This country is overpopulated though so the death of one -possibly- innocent person for the deaths of 10 guilty people is well worth the risk.

That i dissagree with. If there is the possiblilty that some guy just got killed for a crime he never commited that is bullshit i don't care how else you argue that point. It is fucking bullshit.

I had another point i was going to make but Anti's comment really threw me off.

There really is no way of knowing short of someone being caught in the act or too much evidence to prove their guilt. There prolly are innocent people sitting in jail cells but the number of guilty people far outweighs them. If an innocent person gets a death sentence it sucks but what can be done about it? Should they not execute anyone just in case someone might be innocent? Hell fuckin no. Rid this planet of the scumbags an if a few good folks happen to go down with em it's a small price to pay vs the cost of keeping everyone alive.

It would be pretty hiliarious if you, or a family member of you, would end up in death row innocently. I'd laugh my ass off.

This is very Jesuit of me, but everyone, regardless of race, religion, creed, mental status, or sexual preference is still just like yourself, a human being. They are no better than you, no worse. To even think that someone else is less of a individual as yourself because they are different is a great injustice to yourself as well as the world. Who are we to think that we can take the life of someone? Are we their creator? Why is it that the American psyche in many states dictates that certain principles of the Code of Hammurabi is ok? Eye for an eye? Let's compound on this, why not extend the Code of Hammurabi to everything. Let's say you get caught raping someone. I guess that means that a state-sponsored Dominatrix would continually rape you during your prison sentence, or worse, they'd cut off your genitalia. Wouldn't that be nice. What if as a kid you stole a candy bar? Well then, there goes your wicked hand. Truth is plain simple, killing someone because they killed someone is childish. Who as a kid didn't ever have the instance where there explanation for something was "Well they did it first"? Is that not a childish comment to make. You know better, but you still do it. The government does the same thing. They know that killing people is wrong, and even show this by making it a crime. It is but a shame though that the government feels it necessary to kill a murderer, it is a very childish and expensive thing to do.

Other people have brought up the flawed nature of the US justice system. I'm sure many people may have heard of the Ohio State Motto, "With God, all things are possible." Well, lets edit this to how the US justice system works, shall we? "With a good lawyer, all things are possible." Don't agree with that, let me reference a famous acquitted murderer from LA, a child molester that lives on a ranch, and a couple from Boulder, CO that killed their kid as examples.  "If the glove don't fit, then acquit." Catchy, isn't it? It shows how stupid people from LA are.  The same thing is often flip-floped. You could be in the wrong place at the wrong time and be accused for something that you didn't do, but it's too late-- you're already on death row. How would you feel if you were an innocent on death row? I bet one's tune would not be a happy one. It's a shame that people in the world feel that you, an innocent, should be executed anyways because you know, you might be innocent, but oh well, there are so many people on death row that are murderers. You're just a drop in the bucket. You're inconsequential. You're miniscule. You're... an anomaly.  You'll be saved once in heaven. At least that is if there is an afterlife, and there is such a thing as heaven. You'd be pretty screwed if you there wasn't an afterlife, wouldn't you? Lovely, isn't it? Let fate dictate how you are going to die, there is no need for humans to intervene. Think about it, if you are in prison for life without parole, I bet it would be extremely lonely. You'd die a lonely, solitary inmate. No last meal, no hope of escape from inprisonment. I bet that would be hell. To bad I'll never know.

Please do me a favor and go fuck yourself.

In case you didn't read the underlying message in his sarcasm, the man has a very valid point.

And, I'd like to second what TraderJake said.  He pretty much covered everything I was thinking while reading through this thread.

Yeah, i prolly would have said about the same thing, but i'm much too lazy to type all that.

I didnt see any sarcasm in that post.

I disagree with about 99.9% of what TradeJake said. I am not even looking at this from a religious stand point.

Killing is wrong but if you choose to kill someone then yes you deserve to die. Why should I a person that lives within the law and pays taxes pay for you to live in jail. F that you are useless to society so I don't think I should pay for you to live.

And don't say some handicap people don't help society. They did not choose to be that way.

As far as murder is concerned yes eye for an eye is fine by me. Then when the government kills the murder show it on public TV so anyone that wants to watch can.

For repeat rape offenders sure why not cut off their genitalia?

That's most likely because you didn't get the jesuit reference.

I didnt think he was talking about traderjake.

Yeah, its ambiguous.  Could be arr or jake.  Ignore me.
The jesuits are odd.

Done   ;)  

I'm with Scott. Eye for an eye - period.

Oh, I'm sorry. It's only a good solution if OTHER innocent people get killed.There I was, for a moment, thinking it would be an equally good system no matter who got innocently killed. Silly me.

Don't worry though, you won't make much of a chance of getting innocently killed. It's mostly poor black kids. What a relief!

I disagree.... I think anybody who cant afford a good defense is shit out of luck wether they be innocent or guilty. ( t does not matter what color skin)

This could be one of the stupidest fucking things I've ever read!
Only a miniscule number of those released from prison due to new evidence/dna are truly innocent people.  There is a reason these people were suspects in the first place - their criminal pasts!  Do people change?  Sure.  But give me a break - our current penal system is a revolving door for 99% of the criminals.  
I say go back to the "Cool Hand Luke" type of prison and see how crime goes.  Rehabilitation for committing a crime?  No!  I say punishment!!!

So what are you trying to say? The ones that are released may be innocent of the crime they were imprisoned for, but they probably did other criminal stuff in the past so they deserve to be there anyway? Without being prosecuted for it?

This is one of those topics that I try not to comment on because I always end up getting pissed off.

If you have been convicted of murdering someone (that's murdering not just killing) then you absolutley should die.  There is no rehabilitating someone like that.  They have already proved how little they think of thier fellow man, so I think we should return the favor.

Trader Jake mentioned (not trying to start a fight here) Hammurabi's code.  That is the arguement that I hear the most when this comes up.  The fact is that that is a bizarre absolute.  It is no different than if you were to say to somebody "You know that new guy that just started working here?  The black guy?  I heard he does crack" and then the other person says "What are you saying?!?!  That all black people do crack?!?!".  Just because one instance is used, it doesn't mean that all should be associated.

I definatley think that the punishment should fit the crime to a certain extent.  If you murder someone....bye.  See ya.  We don't need you here.  If you steal a candy bar, than you should be forced to cough up 50 cents.  The problem with Hammurabbis code is that it works on the premise that the most stern punishment should be applied no matter what the crime.  

I do agree that more needs to be done to make sure that innocent people do not get executed.  If there is even a sliver of a possibility that someone could be innocent, then they should not be executed.  The fact is that as soon as somebody is put on death row, there are almost constant investigations going on into that persons case.  If they can't find anything then I would say that there is a good chance that they did it.  Off they go.


It's this kind of statement that pisses me off the most.  In the 80's in Detroit, our police department would dress police officers up like homeless people and just sit on the street and wait to get robbed.  As soon as they got robbed, those who were robbing the officers got arrested.  Our mayor at the time, who was a black man, cut the program because 90% of the people that were getting arrested were black and he said that it was a racist program.  These thieves were not baited in any way.  The officers did not go up to young black kids and flash money in front of them.  They sat on a street corner and let the scum of the city come to them.
I'm not trying to say that black people are more criminally active than white people.  The fact is that people in impovrished areas are more likely to commit crimes because in thier dilluted world views, that is the only way to get ahead and most of the poorer areas in this country are mostly populated by black people.  Frankly the mentality in some of these areas is retarded.  There is no other way to put it.  Young black kids are born into poor families (because apparently only black people are poor.  There has never in history been a poor white family.  ::)).  Instead of doing things the hard way and going to school, getting a job and trying to be an asset to the community, he grabs a gun, joins a gang, and blames the white man.  Accountability is completely non-existant, and I am tired of apologizing for being white.

Alright, time to stop and calm down.  Breathe.  Good.  I hope no thinks that I was attacking them directly here, just airing some of my opinions.  I could have gone on for much longer, but I have to actually do some work.

Well if you really must know, keeping somebody on death row for so many years, adding in appeals, and then executing them is actually more expensive than just locking them up in a cell.  Sooooo this argument pretty much is null and void.

As for the black people thing.  Yes, blacks have a MUCH higher chance of being put in prison, and yes they have a MUCH higher chance of being convicted than whites.  So, even if more of them end up in court, a higher percentage of them end up convicted as compared to whites.  Injustice?  Yep.

However, more whites than blacks are on death row in this country, so that doesn't really appy to the death penalty.  If the person killed is a white person, the chance that the murderer will receive the death penalty is MUCH higher than if the murdered person was black.  Also injustice?  Yep.  Proof that the system really isn't working correctly?  Yeah.

I don't agree with the death penalty from a moral standpoint, but I think some of you who are so much in love with it should reconsider the facts: it costs more money, it does allow some innocents through the cracks (even with today's technology), and it is twisted on race (not towards killing more blacks, but based on who was murdered).

I don't disagree these people are dipshits, because they are, but I find it way too easy to just say this. If you've grown up in a ghetto, with crime, drugs and violence around you every day, no father and a teenage mother on crack, it's not that easy to just step out of a life like that. You're shaped as a child. A lousy upbringing makes a lousy child and eventually a lousy adult. It's not genetic, and the same baby would probably have turned out as an asset to society if he was born into a better family in a better place.

You can keep imprisoning and killing these people when they commit crimes, but in the end that's not going to solve a thing. It's pretty obvious you won't scare off potential criminals and it costs a shitload of money.



A little over 40% of the population in death row is black, while a little over 10% of the whole population in the usa is black. So it does apply to the death penalty.

http://www.westernprisonproject.org/PrisonIndex/Section_1/DeathPenalty.html

Cut down on the anount of appeals. That will save money. If they confess to the murder then they get NO appeals.

Unfortunately a confession doesn't always mean the suspect actually did it. People are weird and under a lot of pressure they might say crazy things. Especially considering most criminals aren't the brighterst bulbs.

They would still get a trial. So they would still have to be sentenced to death.

K, well, allow me to offer an opinion from a country that does not impose a death penalty (sorry Arrr, not sure about yours).

Facts:
-In Canada, the average cost of housing a male inmate for one year is more than $50,000 (women are about $10k more expensive)
-Some people just deserve to die.  And before you say "how can you be the judge of who lives and dies", allow me to answer that we live in a democracy.  Let's get crackin with this democracy thing.

Okay, so I'm like a very liberal person.  Call me left-wing Larry.  But I do believe, if used proplerly, the death penalty is a very good thing.  I'm talking you either have to have an admission of guild, some kind of major physical evidence (witnesses, video tape, whatever).  And you have to be 110% sure you got the right guy.  I don't care how a convicted murderer dies - humanely or not.  You skull fucked your victim - shut up and take it like a man.

What the US needs is a revamped legal system (among other systems).  It just plain sucks.  Money always wins, and that's unfortunate.  Get rid of high priced lawyers, multiple appeals, etc. etc.  I mean a lot of cases we hear about here are laughed at.  It doesn't need to be this way.  Settling out of court should be an admission of guilt.  Trials should not last for years and years.  Etc. etc.  It's ridiculous.

Anyway, you want to make sure this system works right.  Anti - you say now that a small margin of error is worth it, but you're dead wrong.  There can be NO margin of error.  Like Arr said - what if you were mistakenly thrown on death row?  I think you'd change your tune pretty damn quick.

OD

Another reason why they tend to stay away from the death penalty is because it would cost more to house the guy in prison than kiling him.

I didn't understand how this was possible until it was explained that there are generally tons of appeals and such. So then it made a little sense but i stil think it can be cheaper to fry 'em.

Only if you do it right away with no appeals, but the whole point of appeals is to make sure somebody on death row isn't innocent.  Many times it can take 20 years or more before somebody on death row actually dies.  Cut out the appeals, and it's more likely that you'll kill an innocent man.  That's bullshit.

On the other hand, if you cut a lot of that, and put somebody in prison for life without appeals, it is probably cheaper, but you still have the problem that an innocent person could get life in prison without any reason....  which would suck just as much.

No, it would suck worse.
I'd rather be dead than have to put up with the rest of the inmates for the rest of my days.

And it is unwise to fear death because we are unsure of what it holds.

^Amen to that.

The U.S. legal system definately needs a major do over. It's about as leak proof as air. (read Wiseguy and you'll know what I mean) But the truth is that a revamp of the system will probably not happen for a very very long time. So I came up with a solution. Every fith suspect brought in should be shot execution style.(the other four suspects can go through the system like normal) Bam! (literally) Fear factor would save the day. I know you all are going :o and I'll just assure you I could never be elected into any sort of office.