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THIS PODCAST CONTAINS SPOILERS.

Podomatic - http://rfgenplaythroughs.podomatic.com/entry/2014-07-05T11_55_21-07_00
Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd9GwDAsvYE
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Itunes - https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/rfgeneration-community-playthrough/id874327459?mt=2

Retro: Donkey Kong Country 1 & 2 - Super Nintendo
Modern: Lost in Shadows - Nintendo Wii

Join the RFGeneration Community Playthrough hosts Rich (Singlebanana), Jamie (techwizard), Floyd (Fleach), and Shawn (GrayGhost81) as we discuss some classic SNES platformers and a hidden gem on the Wii in the May Playthroughs.

Introduction: 0:00:12
DKC/DKC2 Discussion: 0:01:43
Lost in Shadow Discussion: 1:03:04
Conclusion: 1:42:44

Music:
Opening/Closing theme by Atma Weapon - https://atmaweaponnc.bandcamp.com/
Transition Songs - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7XT053TtVs

Edited by Jamie (techwizard)

Maybe some Men At Work will put people in a better mood to discuss the episode.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfR9iY5y94s

However, no men chunder here. At least I hope not.

Raidou and I can make Vegemite sandwiches for everyone.

I'll buy bread from a man in Brussels.

What does chunder mean?

Great show guys. Nice job from the guests too.

chunder (noun): To throw up, vomit.  See also spew, hurl, chuck, heave.

Well now......you learn something every day. :)

I'm happy that we're talking here, but could we move away from Australian slang?

Says the man who started it........... :P

But seriously, we had some good conversation with Disposed Hero before going on the air to record the Lost in Shadow segment. Fleach asked him if he thought Lost in Shadow would have been better off as an Indie title as opposed to a physical release. I'd like for you guys to rehash this conversation and hear other member's thoughts on this topic. Apparently, the dumbass hosting the podcast forgot to cover it. I think you guys should look into replacing that loser.

As you've noticed I have a tendency to steer topics in the wrong direction and open a can of worms in the process.


My question that I posed before recording was: Would Lost in Shadow be a better game had it been a 4-6 hour "indie" title as opposed to a 10 hour game?

I think Lost in Shadow had a lot going for it, but it ended up with lots of fluff padding out the game time. I really think it could have been streamlined and trimmed to be much better.

that was the impression i got from it too, though i didn't play it. ~60 floors is a lot, and it sounded like they didn't have much reason to have so many besides padding the game time.

It's mentioned in the podcast, but the major flaw in this game is that basically not a lot of new elements are introduced throughout. You are essentially playing the same game for 60+ levels. It's a shame, since the concept of this title is so original and the graphics are beautiful. I agree that this title would have probably been better cut in half and released as an Indie title as is. With new elements and possibly a more highly developed and progressive storyline, it would have been a better and more noteworthy release.

Something to add to the discussion, but if it were released as a WiiWare title (downloadable) rather than a packaged good, do you think it would have done better in sales or popularity? Since you're pushing for it to have been released as an Indie title, that would've been the only other distribution method that it could've been released with. Historically, download-only titles on consoles have had trouble getting visibility and sales in comparison to packaged goods.

i tried looking up info on how many copies were sold for this game and can't find anything, though maybe you might know a better way to search for that Shadow. it would be nice to see how well it actually did sell but from the apparent low popularity i'd say it couldn't have done any worse as a WiiWare title.

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/38432/lost-in-shadow/

Total Units

North America:    0.09m    79.4%
+ Europe:    0.00m    3.6%
+ Japan:    0.01m    11.7%
+ Rest of the World:    0.01m    5.2%
= Global   0.11m   

Just to clarify, when we say "indie" we mean short downloadable game game. The reason I had that question was because Limbo was sticking out in my mind as we discussed Lost in Shadow.

I believe my answer to Fleach's question was that Lost In Shadow probably would have been more well received had it been a shorter indie title.  Thinking back on it, it does have that indie game feel to it, with its minimal story and interesting, and somewhat retro, gameplay mechanics.  The problem with Lost In Shadow is that it is essentially a one-trick pony, and they decided to stretch that one interesting gameplay mechanic across a 10-12 hour game.  There are a few different puzzle mechanics in the game, but they all feel like they accomplish the same task:  manipulate the shadows in the background so you can do even more of the same platforming.

My total game time upon finishing Lost In Shadow was right at 12 hours, and I walked away from it feeling like that was an appropriate length for this type of full retail release game, but that it was extremely repetitive.  I had never considered if making it a shorter indie title would make it a better game.  For this game to be as long as it is, it really should have some more varied gameplay elements.  The 3D mechanic introduced about half way through the game was a nice touch, but it ultimately felt tacked on and shallow.  I think they could have done something really interesting with the 3D segments if they were lengthened and the gameplay was more refined and less clunky.  Combat could have been improved as well, possibly with the addition of special abilities.

I don't want to give the impression that this isn't a good game, because it is, it's just a bit too long and repetitive for what it is.  Like I said in the podcast, I could only play a level or two at a time and then would have to put it down for a while.  As it stands, I feel like Lost In Shadow is more of a missed opportunity than anything else.

i misunderstood what was meant by indie too, really you just mean it should be shorter, not specifically indie...you can have short games that are major blockbusters (call of duty games run at around 4-6 hours for the single player).

110,000 copies sold worldwide is relatively low compared with other titles but it's still a lot of copies of anything, i feel like it wouldn't have gotten anywhere near those numbers on WiiWare.

I think it would have done pretty well as something like a Steam title or app as opposed to WiiWare. Better and further reaching advertising on those.

for sure, on those platforms it would do fine if not better probably. WiiWare is just such a limited reach platform.