RF Generation Message Board

I'm curious to see how you guys feel about "new" games. I just checked release dates and most of the titles are either the same ol game with a new name or yet another bad sequel to a game that shouldn't have existed in the first place. Is the imagination that used to make great games dead? How many damn billiards/card games really need to exist for any given console or handheld? Is there another crash in the near future?

Personally I just don't get excited about release lists the way I did when NES was king. Hell, even the 16-bit days were full of must have titles. Lately though I see nothing but the same game I already own 10 times over and nothing that's a must have. I have no desire to open my PSP let alone buy any of the other titles out there. I don't have any desire to purchase 99% of the games currently on the lists for any console or handheld. Most of my Xbox titles are just the same ol game revamped and online enabled (Halo being the exception). How long will others put up with only seeing a must have once a year if that?

I agree with you. The more I play new games the more I like old one better. I think games are getting to complex for thier own good. I do think there are good games being made still but few and far between. As fas as original games being made those are rarest games now a days.

I do think a crash is coming but it won'y be to the extent that the 1984 crash was.

I don't think that a crash is in the cards.  Games have been engrained to much into the mainstream for something like that to happen.  In 1984, people were playing games, but it was still more of a geeks passion and not something that just anybody would get into.  These days the average joe likes to play games too and it's no longer something for 12 year old boys to get into.

As for innovation in games, it's still out there, but just like movies, people would rather play something that they are familiar with and know they are going to like than to take a chance with something different.  In the end the fault lies on the consumer for buying the latest repackaged game in droves than trying the quirky, different title.

If anybody is trying to do new stuff, it's Nintendo.  They're coming up with new and original games all the time, but sadly, they're the least popular company of the three.  Of course, like Sauza said, that's probably because people would rather play something they're familiar with than the quirky, different title.

I have a few things to say.  First, Halo definitely falls into the category of "same ol game revamped and online."  There are a billion first-person shooters on PC that are much better than Halo.  There is absolutely nothing new in Halo, except that they managed to make a decent (at best) FPS with great online capabilities on a console.  I'm not saying it is a bad game, but people really need to realize that it is NOT new or innovative.  PC games have been doing this for years, and to be frank, the FPS genre as a whole is very stale, thanks in part to Halo (and a thousand others).

In some ways, I also don't understand why you're posting this.  The games you (Laurel) seem to be most interested in are the ones you already have ten versions of.  How many retro classic compillation discs and cartridges have you bought in the last year vs. new titles?  I never really got the whole retro classic thing with game collectors, since they especially already have all of those games.  Perhaps they are more convenient, but once you have a few, you more or less have them all.  I think these re-releases are a big part of the problem.

Yes, Nintendo is doing a lot to innovate, but they are also doing a lot of nothing new.  Getting back the the re-releases, look how many they have put out in the last year or two.  So many of the popular games for GBA and DS are just re-releases of old classics.  Are they good games?  Of course.  Does it seem fair to have the killer apps for a major system be games that I already have because they are ten or twenty years old?  Not really.  Even a lot of the "new" games for their systems are just updates to old franchises that have been somewhat played out.  How many Mario Party games can they make before it is too much?  How many Wario Ware games have come out in the last year or two?  What about all the Mario Kart games, which are essentially still the exact same game with new graphics and courses?  Was the DS innovative?  Yes.  Are there some very fresh games for it?  Yes.  Is Nintendo still digging their grave deeper by re-releasing the same game everyone already has ten versions of?  Yep.

Now, as for innovation....  Yeah, it is obviously dwindling, but two of the four people who have responded to this thread absolutely hate the most innovative game of the last ten years: Grand Theft Auto III.  The sheer size and freedom of this game switched everything around.  No longer do gamers ask what they can to do, but rather what they can't - because there really are that many options now.  That's a huge step in video gaming, especially in the massive and interactive world that is Liberty City.  Vice City innovated a lot further, but San Andreas added little besides size (not such a big deal).

CFB i have to disagree with you as Nep stated Nintendo spends much of their time and efforts on rehashing the same ideas in new ways.
For most innovative system i would have to go with PS2 just because of its sheer library. There are so so many games many of which go unnoticed. I wish i could say Xbox but i just don't think they are.

Alot of companies seem worried to take chances on games because it seems that the general public will not like it.

If you named the top 100 best selling games of the year, hell do the top 100 games of the last 2 years. I bet atleast 90% of them would just be a rehashed game/series remake/over-hyped average game.

There are a few games that really shined like KOTOR, and GTA.
but lets face it games like Fable that were supposed to be amazing were more or less just average. Halo IMO was average.
Halo 2 IMO is amazing because of its online play.Which is much easuier on the user than a computer game.

I agree with you Mike. The only compillation discs I have are ones that where given to me as gifts. I have all the games on the original system so why do I need them?

I agree GTA was a great step for games I just hate all the hype that went with Vice and San Andreas. i don't like GTA 3 because of the controls.

I don't think the PS2 was very innovative as a console.  Some of its games were, but the hardware really wasn't.  Just as the NES was innovative in enormous ways, so too was the PlayStation (as much as I hate to admit it).  And, just as the SNES was not innovative at all, the PS2 wasn't either.  All it did was increase the polygon count, make better sound, and have larger capacity for games.  Who cares?  They even used the same exact controller (minus analog buttons) as the PS1, which in turn was a ripoff of the SNES controller that was innovative back in 1990!  PS2 was built and succeeded and is the #1 console in the world based solely on the standard formula they knew already works - not innovation.

In terms of hardware, I think Xbox takes the cake this generation for a console that did the most innovation.  Most people thought the thing would be a total piece of garbage when it was announced Microsoft would be releasing a console (with a hard drive and built-in ethernet support).  Here we are years later and they have a broadband-only online game network, plenty of popular LAN games, good use of the hard drive, and games like Steel Battalion.  Sure, they do still have a heavy focus on EA Sports titles, but nowhere near where that emphasis is for Sony and the PlayStation 2.  Not all of the innovations Xbox brought are ones I personally wanted to see, but they are still there.

Just because Nintendo is using the same characters they've been using since the start doesn't mean they aren't being innovative.

For example, take Yoshi's Touch & Go.  This is one of the most innovative games I've seen in a long time, and it uses the characters and "feel" of a game that was released in 1995 (Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island).  Not only is the game Yoshi's Touch & Go innovative, but the system it plays on is something entirely new.  Although the PSP may have superior graphics and a larger selection of games, DS is something completely different from anything the console gaming world has ever seen before.

As for releasing games with original gameplay and new characters, look at Pikmin.  This is an addictive puzzle/adventure game with entirely new characters and storyline.  Pikmin's gameplay is what really makes it so fresh and inventive.  I can honestly say I have never seen any game that plays quite like Pikmin.

Then again, there are a lot of game series that Nintendo is making very little changes in with each new game, but I say if it ain't broke, don't fix it.  And most of the sequels and rereleases that Nintendo is publishing nowadays are not broken.  As a matter of fact, they're far from it.  I am 99% sure that I have never heard of a Nintendo game being put down for its gameplay (At least, not from anyone who knows what they're talking about.).

So, although Nintendo is using the same characters and overtones in their games, they're creating new gameplay mechanics all the time, just not in all of their titles.  They have to keep some sequels the same as their predecessors simply because there's no reason to change the gameplay at this point because it hasn't gotten tired yet.  The only series I see Nintendo overusing is the Mario Party series, and I'm not really that big a fan of those kinds of games anyway.

But I've got a bit of Nintendo fanboy in me, so these opinions are probably a little biased.  Either way, I still think Nintendo is the most innovative company in the gaming world right now, and I really hope it stays that way.

Yea I do buy retro rereleases and they always are among my favorite games however... I think Feel the Magic and Tales of Symphonia are great fucking games. I say ToS not because it's one of my favs but because of the linear motion battle system. And how about Baten Kaitos? Sure there are games with card based battle systems out there but nothing with the mechanics of Baten Kaitos cause it isn't a "card game".

Though I love the rereleases and Zelda games there are just far too many of em IMO.

I trust me by no means did i mean hardware wise was PS2 more innovative than Xbox i didn't make that clear enough.

This is not a debate of PS2 vs GameCube vs XBox. You can go to each one of  those systems and find new innovative games. I think Laurel meant the video game industy as a whole.

Yes, exactly Scott. I think the industry as a whole is pooping big time. I love the DS and there are some great games for it but take a look at the release lists. Same story with every other console and the PSP as well. How many Dynasty Warriors games really need to exist?

As many as the public is going to buy.
Have yopu tried any of the games like Lumines?
I know it is a Rezish style game but it is also suppose to be damn sweet from what i have heard.

It isn't about how many of the games exist it is about when the general public looses interest in them.
Do we really need 3 Wario Ware handhelds?
No but they are all selling because people love them now.
Does there really need to be 2 or more differetn football games out there? No but people want to play NFL Pro, NFL Streets  Collge Football.

What about Mario Party? Their didnt need to be 3 on the N64 alone but they knew it would sell so they pumped 3 versions out in a few years.

It isn't about what a few people think. It is what will sell.

Thats the point. People are being forced stuff and to many really shitty games are being made. Those 2 issues where factors in the crash of 1984.

ACTUALLY

The factors of 1984 was that Atari only had 60ish% of the market and 3rd party developers for Atari consoles had the other 40ish%.
The head honcho over at Atari being the shrewd buisness man he was thought if they made enough games to seel to 10% of the market like they had previously done that they would all sell.
Unfortunately (depending on your views) he was wrong. There where 1,000s of extra games just colecting dust on store shelves because people were not going to buy nearly as many titles as were sold nor were they going to buy more than they previously had just because all the extras were there(Until prices plummeted that is).
So everyone had to take losses many of which got knocked out of the industry because of said losses.  The consumer was just not going to deal with a extra 60% of producaed games being thrown on the market that quickly.

I suggest you brush up on your classic gaming reading :)... I suggest i do aswell i am not 100% on all of that but that is the basic gist of it. As for my percentages i will give them a +-5% margin.

New innovative games for Xbox:

Phantom Dust (only 20 bucks, collect the skills and then kick some ass online)
Jade Empire (Action RPG that combines the best of innovations discovered in Fable and KOTOR)

heard good things about:

Timesplitters: FP (shrink mode, vampire mode, etc. plus online)
Forza Motorsport (played the demo and am becoming more and more impressed with the capabilities)
Conker: Live and Reloaded (played 1Player demo, looking forward to multiplayer)
and
Psychonauts (platformer where you go into the psyche of individuals and get in adventures that lead to resolving "emotional baggage", etc.).

I don't have to. I think we both said the same thing. We both said to many games out in the market that people wont buy.

there won't be another crash. when it happened the first time the gaming industry was still young and maybe thought of as a passing fad. how much time went by before the industry got rolling again? not much, the NES debuted in what? 1985?

things have been rolling steadily along for 20 years. we'll see some lulls and more game companies will come and go but I don't see it ever drying up completely. video games are common household objects now.

there's plenty of innovation too, it's just easy to miss as it's mixed in with all the same old/same old drivel.

the trend of recycling games/ideas/characters isn't going anywhwere either. that trend is everywhere. in the past few years how many boy bands have been rammed down our throats? how many reality TV shows? why do you think George Lucas is still making Star Wars movies?

I may be over simplifying things but what's going on in games isn't really much different than what's going on in many other forms of pop culture.

Good points Den.

I dont think video games will dry up completely. I am just hoping less games will be put out.