RF Generation Message Board

I am thrilled to bring you this month's retro community playthrough title: the original Suikoden for the Sony Playstation.

I played this game for the first time almost exactly two years ago at a time when I was very new to RPGs. After the first few hours, I couldn't put the game down. I'm very excited to give this classic another run with the RFGeneration community!

[img width=408 height=323]http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/1/11332/592418-suikoden.gif[/img]

Story:
Take control of the son of Teo McDohl, the great imperial general. You might think being the son of a general would have its perks and it does, for about the first ten minutes of the game. It doesn't take very long at all for the player to realize things aren't what they seem behind the scenes of the government. Being thrust into a world of political turmoil, you must navigate many complicated relationships and situations with the game's many characters. This is the most interesting narrative in a console game I have ever experienced. 

Gameplay:
Mechanically, the game plays as a traditional turn-based JRPG, but it is a very well designed one. Your character moves fast on screen. The battle system is simple and fast paced. The encounter rate is just right. The weapon upgrade system is very unique. The sprite work is beautiful and the way it is blended in with the 3D technology of the day is amazing.

[img width=640 height=480]http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/44908-suikoden-playstation-screenshot-regular-battles.gif[/img]

In the game you have the opportunity to recruit characters to join your cause, with many being playable party members. I tend to recruit only whomever I trip over while completing the main events of the game, but I'm excited to hear about the participants who will no doubt attempt to recruit everybody available. 

Available Platforms:
The was first released in North America on the Sony Playstation in 1996 and today is also available on The Playstation Network for download on the Playstation 3 and PSP. If you speak Japanese you can play the game on the Sega Saturn as well!

Resources:
http://www.suikosource.com/games/gs1/

Checkpoints:
Week One (6/1/14-6/7/14):
Claim your castle and give it a kick-ass name!
Week Two (6/8/14-6/14/14):
Defeat Kwanda Rosman.
Week Three (6/15/14-6/21/14):
Defeat Neclord.
Week Four (6/22/14-6/30/14):
Finish the game!

Participants:
grayghost81
sirpsycho
h1ghw1nd
retrorage
disposed hero
douglie007
singlebanana
boshamp

_________________________________________________

I've mentioned elsewhere on the forum how special the first two Suikoden games are to me. This is not only because of how amazing they are just as games, but also because they were introduced to me by my best friend Jesse, whom as most of you know recently passed away. I distinctly remember the day he lent me Suikoden and Suikoden II because when he pulled them out of the side compartment of his motorcycle, I kind of gave him guff about it. Why weren't they in a briefcase handcuffed to him? 

I named my character after him and am dedicating this playthrough to him. Let's make it a great one.

[img width=700 height=393]http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h32/grayghost81/IMG_20140524_194500_453_zpsc8cd2b91.jpg[/img]

I'm in.  Never played this before so this could get interesting

Played and beat this game 2 times, I love it, the hardest part is getting all 108 playable people

I'm at the tail end of the game I'm playing. If anybody's starting soon I would recommend going to Milich's house and digging through his closets. Its the mansion with all the vines and flowers.

Awesome!  Looking forward to this.  I've been itching to play an old-school PS1 era RPG again  :)

108 playable characters?  Whaaaaat?

Nah, only around 70 are playable.

Oh.  Well that sounds reasonable.

Sounds like the type of game I stayed away from as a kid...having so many people to choose from was a turn off as I do not enjoy thinking for myself. ha ha. The first game I stopped playing because of this was Chrono Cross, but I suppose I can grow up and learn to think outside the box. I need to play a game like this and thankfully, I own a copy. Count me in for this one. Unfortunately...it is CRACKED...it isn't noticeable from the cover of the disc, but when it couldn't be read and I took it out to clean it, I found a pretty much invisible crack all the way from the center ring to the edge. The only way I saw it was by the light reflecting off it at different angles. Not cool, life, not cool.

The only bad part about so many playable characters is not being able to use all the cool ones in battle at the same time. You don't really have to keep switching them out (FFX style) I usually just switch out to my favorite people as I get them. ^_^

Well, thanks to Disposed Hero, I will be able to join again. I will probably play SotC while I wait for it to arrive, but I am thinking I will have enough time to catch up with you all. My transaction with Hero was my first, but he made it very simple and quick for me.  :leo: Thank you, Disposed Hero!

I'm gonna spice this play through up a little. Whoever recruits the most characters by the end of the month will win….to be determined mwahahaha (maybe update those wish lists?) I'll come up with something official by the 1st though.

Regarding PS1/PSN differences (if any) & Suikoden II:

Spoiler (hover to show)

I was reading a FAQ that said when you transfer your save to II, the names of your main character & castle get messed up unless you name them in all capitals? Anyone know if it's the same on the PSN version?

Also, can you somehow transfer data from II to III or any others?

@h1ghw1nd: That's awfully nice of you.

@boshamp: Oddly enough I also got my copy of Suikoden from Disposed Hero. You have nothing to be worried about.

Has anyone had a chance to start yet? Any thoughts?

I talked about this in another thread.

For the name mess up its some weird translation and programming stuff on Konami's part. In terms of canon the leader from I is named Tir McDohl. It takes all the capital letters you put in his name from the save data and puts them in his name for Suikoden II. Use the canon name and he comes up as TcDohl for example. If you want his name to truly carry over you need to use all caps and just name him MCDOHL or TIRMCDOHL. Using symbols like punctuation just messes it up even further.

There are no differences since Suikoden II is not on PSN yet. So when you boot up a physical copy and transfer the data it does what it was always meant to do. It doesn't matter if you play the game on a PS2 or PS3 it will always do the process outlined above.

You can transfer a Suikoden II cleared save to Suikoden III for some bonuses. The way you do this since they're on different systems is to copy the Suikoden II save file over to a PS2 memory card and load it from there. You can also upload a cleared Suikoden IV save file into Suikoden Tactics, but that's the last example of this mechanic in the series.

@boshamp: Oddly enough I also got my copy of Suikoden from Disposed Hero. You have nothing to be worried about.

I have heard nothing but horror stories about transactions online, but so far, I am pleasantly surprised.

I got started tonight. If anybody wants some tips they can ask about it on here or PM me. For the newer members I'm the insane fanboy for this series. Anyway, in order to prevent my save from messing up Tir's name I decided to have a little fun with a name that begins with the letter 'M'. I decided on Mixalot so the one capital letter will fall in with the default name in Suikoden II, but also because of this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kY84MRnxVzo

Find all the 108 people :) so you can use your save for Suikoden 2 and get extra goodies.

I'm gonna find like only 14 dudes

Thanks for the info SirPsycho!

I started 2 days ago…did a little grinding before I even talked to Ted & grabbed the EXP boost item (forgot the name) I think I'm on level 13.

I wouldn't worry too much about grinding. Don't worry about money, there's a simple trick you can do to make endless money later in the game.

There's actually a trick you can do at the beginning too for lots of money. That's why I chose to grab that EXP boost instead of the $$$ boost.

I know of it I just hate playing that game, its also why I skipped the extra items. I didn't want to make a spreadsheet of the pattern because I'm lazy and halfway to Toran Lake by now. My way to earn endless money is insanely fast later on, and well documented for those that desire to look. I'll drop some big hints for the newer players later.

Checkpoint 1 is complete in a bit less than 3 hours of game time. I played a bit further too and have the infinite money machine rolling. YOU GET A WEAPON LEVEL, YOU GET A WEAPON LEVEL! EVERYBODY GETS SHOULDER PADS!

[img width=700 height=525]http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g436/gpro83/20140530_213535_zpsnt8d4jvz.jpg[/img]

Yeah I could go for some White Castle, anybody else up for a run?

Anyway, this is what I named my Toran Castle. I had to keep with the theme of Mixalot. My hand was a bit shaky here... Anybody care to guess why?

[img width=700 height=525]http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g436/gpro83/20140530_213623_zpslblsbzan.jpg[/img]

First of all please tell me about this.

You got to the first checkpoint faster than I intended but I'll chalk it up to you be an expert on this game. It took me about four and a half hours. I'm working on the week two checkpoint now and it'll take longer than week one.

I believe the first time I played the game I never recruited whichever innkeeper you need to be able to save in the castle. Any hints?

Heh nice SirPsycho.  Sounds like you're really getting into this.  I picture you sitting 5 inches away from the screen on the floor hiding under a blanket with a huge bag of MnMs next to you.

I'm going with a Game of Thrones theme so I named my dude Hodor.

I started playing a little last night, I enjoy it so far.  I can't say too much and it yet but the music is nice!   I named my dude, walked around the town for a bit, then turned it off because I was falling asleep.  12 hours work days will do that to me...

Damn, I think I missed the innkeeper again. EDIT: Nope, got her!  :D

Well, today's the first of the month. Does everyone have a copy of the game? The June Retro Community Playthrough officially begins NOW!

Just got to the town passed Mt. Tigerwolf.

I've played about 4 hours, and here's my impression so far...

It's pretty easy to pick up and play and somewhat intuitive.  I really like the Free Will option, it streamlines the grinding nicely.  But there are a few things that drive me nuts.  

When you buy an item like medicine, it has a stock number next to it.  Which ordinarily might not be a bad thing, but it only goes up to 6.  Then if you want to buy more of the same item, it takes up an additional slot in your item box.  Again, this might not ordinarily be an issue, except the item list isn't a community list, every character has their own item inventory and they can only hold 10 or so items.  I have urns and stuff that need to be appraised and they're taking up valuable retail space and I have no idea when I'll see an appraiser again.

On top of that, I don't like that you have to constantly swap items with people.  This makes buying and equipping weapons and armor a nightmare.  I wish it was a community thing so if something was unequipped I could easily equip it on someone.  A lot of times I've bought an item I didn't know I already had because someone else had it sitting idle in their inventory.

Besides those gripes, it's a fun game so far.  I can't wait to learn more about how the runes work.

Yeah those issues suck. Ran into it a few times picking up chests and having to drop something.

I just now finished the trip to get the Astrological Results or whatever. So I'm still close to the beginning haha. My characters are badasses now though so I'm probably gonna run through a lot more tonight and hopefully reach that first checkpoint!

The inventory system is my biggest complaint about this game as well. I've gotten practiced enough to the point where I just spread items around evenly to the party without thinking too much about it. Suikoden 2 fixes this problem and changes the Rune system so well that they became the standard for the rest of the series.

Got my copy from Disposed Hero this morning. Will start it up tonight. Thanks again, Hero!

Before I get too into it, I have a couple questions. Does this game sport hidden items? I would like to know if it is worth my time to search every corner and crevasse as I usually do with RPGs or not. Also, can you run in this game somehow? I went through all of the first Golden Sun game without realizing I could run, so I make sure I don't make the same mistake twice, but I cannot figure any way to move quicker.

There are a few hidden items, but not a ton. I would recommend hitting the action button near suits of armor and dressers. SirPsycho can probably elaborate on this because I know there are a few good items you can find right in the beginning.

There is no run button, but as I mentioned in the OP, Tir zooms across the screen so you won't be missing it.

Just made it to the checkpoint. My Gremio is level 24 highest among my characters haha.

What party did you guys use after gaining the castle? I'm running with Hero/Gremio/Cleo/Viktor/Yam-Koo/Luc

I'm using the exact same party Highwind

I think this is the kind of game where you have to decide if you're going to use a guide or not. On my first playthrough I didn't, but this time I intend to because I already have way more recruits than I did the first time around and I want to utilize them to the fullest.

It's beyond the first checkpoint I believe, but one of my favorite characters for battle both times I played is

Spoiler (hover to show)

Valeria and her ass kicking Falcon Rune attack with unlimited uses.

This game reminds me of the trouble I used to have with some NES RPGs, I take one step out into the world map and encounter an enemy I couldn't defeat and died right off the bat. I have perished several times trying to get over the first mountain stage I assume should be where I am going. But I grinded up to level 10 and still have trouble...I hope I find some support characters soon.

Boshamp there are a few story events that happen before you even leave the first town. Did you do them?

Spoiler (hover to show)

Have you ridden a dragon?

I got a little to carried away playing this again :) my hero is at 35 and I have passed the 2nd week part :) I should start Shadow.   Also Whats everyones Castles Name :) I couldnt come up with a good one so its FunStone Castle :)

Boshamp do you even have a second character yet? Haha

Hero's name: HADOUKEN (i guess my guys name will be HcDohl in the next game? LOL)
Castle: WACKY! (name for wacky racers :P)

My hero's name is Hodor and my castle's name is the Red Keep.

HODOR

You could have gone with Dragonstone. Don't you remember the boss you fought? DON'T YOU REMEMBER!?

No sir...I should probably talk to everyone in the first town. I learned about a gold grinding solution from someone on here, so I wanted to ensure I left the main city alone for the EXP booster. but I wanted this game to be as pure as I could since I have never experienced the story at all, so when he said to make sure I left the first city alone, I just left. ha ha.

There is a running button in this game too. Its called the Holy Rune. Since it takes a rune slot there is no reason to use it. Stallion is one of the 108 Stars and he comes with the True Holy Rune, one of the 27 True Runes that inhabit this world and grant their wielder eternal life. But he kinda sucks in combat.

Boy does Luc suck in combat right now!

@boshamp i made it to the booster & back by level 13. can't you just "let go" most of the enemies along the way?

Probably, but I have never been one to skip fights in RPGs. Nor have I been one to ever use items, but this game almost required the use of medicine when travelling alone. ha ha

Dude, you should not be traveling alone!

This is an amazing game. I beat it in '97 but sadly don't own it anymore. I'm sure you guys will enjoy it thoroughly  :)

I tried this last night and really liked it. Then I was reading a guide and saw:

Spoiler (hover to show)

BEAUTY ATTACK - Cleo & Eileen & Valeria, Cleo & Eileen & Sonya (Attacks all, 3x Damage)

I really can't wait to try that one!

OK that one was a tad underwhelming. But I did discover:

Spoiler (hover to show)

Meg and Juppo's TRICK ATTACK

And I love using Meg as both her portrait and her sprite are adorable.

I got a late start on this one, but I sunk a good hour or so into it last night.  I'm really enjoying it!  It's hard to believe it's been at least 15 years since I've played this game....

@SirPsycho:  Should I use a guide or character checklist of some sort if I want to recruit all 108 characters?  I'm assuming that some of the characters are missable.

I think there's a spoiler free recruitment guide on gamefaqs to use for recruitment. If you want to get everybody for a good save I'd recommend it. I dont think there are any misables for a little while.

I finally have my castle, and with it, a number of mixed feelings about my experience so far. I have made it just a hair past getting the castle itself.

Firstly, everything seems too lax for a "save the world" storyline. I am not finding myself sucked into it. Each character I recruit seems to just be in the right place at the right time and it doesn't seem like my "decisions" are really affecting outcomes or my ability to recruit yet. It feels like no matter what I choose, it is either correct and we move on, or incorrect and another character corrects my "mistake" and the story flows onward. Also, there seems to be a lot of events that are confusing,

Spoiler (hover to show)

 some people have no issues teleporting/sneaking into our hideout, so either our enemy is too cocky or too stupid to not continue to send assassins and teleport their own wizards in greater numbers to kill us while we are weak.

Spoiler (hover to show)

Also, people are dying off too quickly, I felt nothing when Odessa was killed for saving the child...we didn't get enough time with her to develop feelings towards her character, I wouldn't be surprised if others die off too, with 108 different characters and something like 70 of them playable in party, I feel it is too much to be able to develop each character at the fast pace this game runs at. There is no individuality with these characters in my opinion, even the main character is thrown into the fray too jovially for my satisfaction, it started off relaxed with the departure of his father and I don't feel the circumstances being any more intense anytime soon.

Spoiler (hover to show)

Pahn and his personality make him the only character I have any real interest in so far, plus his sprite reminds me of Arc the Lad, so I like him even more. (Not sure if everyone got to where you reclaim Pahn after his change of heart involving his alliance, so spoiler tagged)

Secondly, I have spent HOURS travelling the world map in between storyline junctions with different combinations of characters, talking with EVERYONE to make sure I get all 108 characters, but it seems that the game's freedom to allow you to travel away from the main story offers no benefits aside from being able to buy advanced equipment a couple events earlier than the game designed. I am not used to games allowing me to stray so much from my objectives...and I still do not like the idea of that freedom. I like to be carried in a direct manner into the story...just like watching a good movie.

Spoiler (hover to show)

I want my experience to be as untainted as it can be, but can I get all 108 characters on my own with effort? or are there characters that almost demand you to cheat to know the exact combination of events needed to recruit?

Finally, after feeling like I have been complaining too much, I want to state some things I have liked about our first week. I like the movement controls in the game, if I am going left and it staggers diagonally upward, it will automatically drive you up when you hit the wall, making navigation much easier with only four directions of movement. I like the replay value the game drives. Even though I personally hate having the freedom to choose from so many different classes and setups of parties, it gives the potential for countless times around with different experiences each time.

Spoiler (hover to show)

combo attacks are awesome, although a little backstory or reason as to why they are available with certain character combos would be nice in my opinion

. Runes are nice for replay value too, but I hate not knowing which one would be best for which character, and that it isn't easy to add and remove them to experiment quickly.

In the end, I would have normally put this game down by now and not felt any reason to resume, but it is different knowing all of you are playing too, sharing the experience with your own feelings and opinions...and that excitement is something I have missed in gaming since becoming a stupid, old, busy......adult...ha ha

I left this out of my above post so I could quote, but I agree. Having limited space for inventory and having to take so much time swapping between characters to see improvements on stats or not is time consuming and irritating...

Also, in what world is Leather Armor giving more defensive value than Brass? ha ha

Thank you for the correction. I'm actually using this a lot now.

***

@Boshamp I'm curious what kinds of games you usually play in light of the complaints you have about this game. Indeed Suikoden is not a linear experience. That's what is so great about it.

Also, I disagree that this is a "save the world" storyline. The kind of dissonance you're highlighting is certainly present in something like a Mass Effect game; the entire universe is in imminent danger? SIDE QUEST TIME! Perhaps it's here to a degree, but you are trying to build an army in this game to overthrow the empire. The reward for doing a fetch quest can be very valuable versus the time spent completing it, and very relevant and important to your cause.

Also, if you really like Pahn,

Spoiler (hover to show)

Make sure to level his ass up and keep his weapon sharp. Trust me.

Also, I missed your comment about why you were running around the overworld all by your lonesome, so I apologize for chastising you for it.

***

It is very interesting and cool that so many of you guys are going for 100% recruitment. That's really not my bag, but you've inspired me to explore a lot more and dig a lot deeper into the game than I did the first time I played it.

Week two's checkpoint is officially live. I'm working on week three right now and I'm going to push it out pretty far, so don't be afraid to play ahead a little.

I have played a variety of games in my life as far as RPGs, but usually the side quests are either small and quick, or saved for the very last disc of a game before you actually conquer the game. I need more variety, so I am happy to play this game, and shortly after my post when I got the castle, things started to get much more interesting and before I knew it, it was 5 in the morning (7 for you east coasters) and I had to stop myself from pulling an all-nighter. ha ha

I suppose you are right that they never really gave me any reason to think in the beginning I was involved in a world crisis plot. Thinking back, it is more of a civil war kind of feel. At least, up until you get your castle, then things start to become a little more worldly. I must just be jaded by most every other game being save the world...or the princess who thinks she IS the world.  :laugh:

Mass effect is a great example of something with more polarity, as I remember turning away from the storyline in the middle of life threatening catastrophe to go to uncharted worlds for precious metals and such.

Character development is one of the most important things for me, so I think a lot of why I had issues starting was that because there are so many, and the storyline doesn't directly involve many of them, so you don't develop feelings and depth for a lot of them. Again, Pahn was different because I saw his struggle within. So far, I am pretty sure I will be using Pahn, Kai, and Tir all the time. Kai simply for a reason tagged as a spoiler earlier. I hope I can find a few other characters as we progress to get a more traditional lineup, with a couple fighters, a mage, a healer type, etc. I also have loved having Valeria for her Rune attack on stronger individual enemies. Having her in the back row is no problem at all. :)

Also...are there characters you see early, but have to wait to recruit? I have come across a couple people I am sure will be recruited, but no matter what I try, they just will not come along.

Good thoughts Boshamp. These playthroughs run on commentary like yours, so I appreciate you sharing, even if (or maybe especially if) you're not just in love with the game.

There are quite a few characters who have special requirements, whether they be fetch quests, level requirements or others.

Here's the guide I've been using. Be sure to view it at you own risk as there are a few major untagged spoilers for portions of the game which we have not officially gotten to here yet.

http://www.suikosource.com/games/sod.php?pf=S1

Great posts Boshamp! I think I'm probably around the area you're at as well. For some reason I don't remember this game as well as I do others. Like FF7/8/X/ I know what's coming up because I've beat it before. Everything in this game is kinda fresh even though when I see it I remember it. Weird. Kind of a good thing though lol. Good to hear you're continuing. that's the best part of play throughs, hearing thoughts all around the board!

spoilers if you're not to week 1's checkpoint:

Spoiler (hover to show)

I feel the same way about Odessa. She was gone way too fast. I enjoyed her company and her whole character pretty much. The lone mission you get with her was a nice story moment. The passion she has for her beliefs and the strength she shows as a female leader were qualities I admired about her. It would have definitely been more powerful to build her up at least a while longer before she died. Suikoden prequel starring Odessa ASAP lol

POTENTIAL FULL GAME SPOILERS DON"T READ IF YOU HAVENT FINISHED LOL

Spoiler (hover to show)

@GG (or SirP) Regarding Pahn…you say if we LIKE him to build him up? I was actually going to play without Pahn the whole game unless I'm forced to. (He did Young Master wrong haha! So what's the deal with him is in a big boss fight or what? I've beat it before, I just forgot)

Level Pahn's ass up whether you like him or not. You have infinite money right?

Fair enough.

@h1ghw1nd:

Spoiler (hover to show)

Pahn has a one on one duel with Teo in which he has to be over a certain level and weapon level to survive. If he dies, it's permanent. In my game he died on the first blow because I never used him. Sayonara.

EVERYBODY AVOID THAT SPOILER. Its one of the best moments in the game. Just level Pahn up.

I pretty much have infinite money, at least for a very long time it will seem infinite.

Only read if your GG or SP haha

Spoiler (hover to show)

Kinda wondering if Pahn should die in my new story arch where Teo does not approve of his actions in Gregminster even if he's against Tir's actions. Hahaha am I cold for that?Does Tir/Gremio/Cleo fully forgive him for basically being the end of Ted?

[edit] does this have consequences on the 108 stars if he dies will it only be 107?

If any of the 108 Stars permanently dies then one does not get the best ending, and you won't get a perfect save to convert over to Suikoden II.

I just finished the dwarf caves, and some things are still confusing me.

What do I do with crystals?  I can't equip them or anything and they aren't like runes, so do I just leave them in my inventory and I get those abilities that way?

Are certain characters better fit for specific runes/rune pieces or does it not matter?

And I'm having no luck figuring out who to unite with who.  I think I'm just gonna look at the spoilers because mt patience is gone.

Crystals are runes. You need to equip them at a rune shop. Each character in this game only has one rune slot, which makes equipping them a bit of a chore.

I was thinking about making a quick rune guide based on what runes everybody should have just from treasure chests. I'm not in the game right now but there are some I can think of off the top of my head.

Counter - Viktor (his accuracy is crap, counters never miss though)
Killer - Pahn is the best choice around the dwarf events
Lightning - Cleo (single target spells are best for bosses)

Most unite attacks aren't worth it. If you want to collect them to just watch them once I'd do some party switching near the end of the game. The only one really worth anything right now is Tir and Kai's Master and Pupil unite.

I can't tell if this game is really addictive, or if the clunky and tedious systems combined with a little ocd are just sucking the hours away. MUST. GO. OUTSIDE.

I really like our site's spoiler system, but I also enjoy seeing posts telling me to stay away, since they do seem a bit overused and I never know if it is small or significant. I also like directing spoilers at individuals to answer questions and whatnot in order to keep everyone else in control of their playthroughs.


I think it is the OCD, because I know that is what is keeping me on track to get all the character despite my issues with the lack of in-depth stories that I want to have with each of them. ha ha

I got past the week 2 checkpoint last night.

This spoiler is safe.

Spoiler (hover to show)

Dont kill the generals. They're stars and you cant get the best ending without them.

just pasted Week 3 :) I really need to stop playing it, but I can put it down.  I have my hero at almost level 50.    

Spoiler (hover to show)

 also the Cup game in my Castle is still a set pattern besides what is said online.  if you need more money.   

Another question I thought of that might help me both keep my playthrough pure and get everyone recruited is to ask if there are any characters with a point of no return?

Sorta spoiler?

Spoiler (hover to show)

 I beat that stupid dragon and wasted all my medicine in the process, then immediately got destroyed by that Kwanda dude.  And that random unique battle thing  you fight him in is...interesting.  No explanation, no warning, you just go with it and hope for the best.  That, and the random massive unit battle against the Imperial forces.  Again no explanation, no warning.  Seems fair.  Now I have to start over again from the burned elf village.  

I don't need a massive tutorial because generally i hate tutorials, but give me SOME explanation.  Anything.

I gotta say, and no offense to you guys who are big fans of this game, but the flaws are mounting and its really beginning to turn me off.  I'll do my best to complete the game though.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels there are some flaws with this one. And more than just my preference. In all things, it is good to understand the good and the bad.

In response to the above spoiler:

Spoiler (hover to show)

I was also surprised by the new battle systems that introduced themselves at this point. But I enjoyed the change, it made me like this game a lot more than I originally did at the start, and I hope there are many more duels and army clashes ahead, since those felt different and more in depth than I am used to

All right, once again I have to force myself to stop, otherwise I might just finish this tonight. ha ha Couple thoughts to leave you all with at this point...

1. I love Pahn even more now. When you talk to him in the castle, all he has to say is: "Where's my food?" ha ha ha That is definitely something I relate to.

2. My issues with the lack of character building are even less of an issue now that I have moved forward. They each play a perfect role in the game, you could very easily just assess each person as a number in battle and add them in as a form of experience, or an "item" you pick up, say...3 Thieves, 3 strategists, etc. But having a picture, name, and physical person in our base gives me the perfect sense of individuality for the role they play in this story, while also literally showing me that me "Army" is growing. Which allows me to focus on the playable characters I enjoy or at least want to play. As for the others that don't fit these molds...well, they are the replay value factor missing from so many other RPG's. ;)

3. Something I still am lost on are rune pieces. What are the elemental attributes? I have gone with water for Tir, and I can see that means HP regen. But what do the others do? and who would benefit the most from having the others equipped?

I hope all of you are enjoying this as much as I am.

Finally, I hope I am not coming off the wrong way saying this, but I would really love to get some more people talking about what they find, even if they are just small quotes that you enjoyed/disliked. First timers like me...I am challenging you to get some posts going and give some feedback on how you feel and what you think on your first time playing this game. Thank you for already sharing yours, RetroRage!

I left that in as a strikeout so I don't confuse anyone about why I edited and add this, but I didn't realize there were only 8 of us playing this together. I thought there would be more. Instead of asking for some more feedback from those I thought were being silent during our time shared...I need to find a way to encourage more people to join in on these. ha ha

That's fine dude! No offense taken at all. There are some really great discussions going on here, and dissenting opinions are welcome and encouraged.

As much as I love this game I totally agree about the duels and full scale battles. Both of them work on a rock/paper/scissor type system that is detailed in the game's manual. The duels can be beaten with a guide (what your opponent says will telegraph his attacks and you can respond accordingly).

Having to go through the entire dungeon and a boss before the Rwanda duel was absolutely a poor design decision.

I'm really enjoying this game also.  It's been so long since I've played it, but I feel like I'm enjoying it more now than I did back in the late '90s.  I love recruiting more characters and watching my castle grow.  The biggest problem I have right now is deciding on who to keep in my party.  I've looked into it a little bit already, but I'll probably check out a character faq or something to try and get an idea on who the top tier characters are and some good party combinations.  I probably have maybe 30 or so playable characters to choose from right now, and I already feel overwhelmed by the options.

I haven't gotten to the duels/battles yet, but I do have vague memories of them from a long time ago.  I remember them being pretty interesting, so I'm looking forward to finally getting to that point.

I'm kinda getting ahead too. When I saw what week 2's checkpoint was I realized I've been getting to business haha. I'm a little ways past that part but I did spend a lot of time leveling up Pahn and buying equipment.

The castle is one of the best parts of the game! I love seeing all of the members meddling around and building new sections of the castle. Now how the hell did they build those towers and stretch those walkways? Haha! Since the game is making me take a lot of characters without choice I'm having to leave some of my favorites out of the party :( I'm making Sansuke my main party member but for now he'll have to sit out because he's a front row guy (like everyone it's making me take lol) Right now I'm building up the chef, somehow without a booster he passed Pahn's level lol.

What's everyone's highest level so far? Gremio is still my leader at 36, though Flik tried to challenge him with a level 35. :) The rest of my party right now is around level 30-31.

Such an awesome game in my opinion. I really can't wait to play II again as well since I've heard a lot of the tedious stuff is fixed. My infinite money ran out :( I keep having to bet on the dice game and just reset if I lose…I need the cup game back!

"Are you strong?" "No, you are about 11 levels short" Well, I guess I figured this recruitment out. ha ha

I also am finding I am forced to take many characters as the story goes, so it feels like my freedom of choice is limited, which I personally like better than having the complete freedom to choose 6 unique characters out of 60-70. Having 3-4 people involved in the story keeps the storyline somewhat involved, but being able to play with the others gives a little more to the gameplay element.

I agree that the castle is becoming more and more involved and more a part I am starting to like. I have evolved it twice from what I can tell. Does it evolve with the addition of specific characters? or a certain number of recruits?

Some of the characters probably make it expand like the ones that sell stuff or set up their own areas for games or whatever. I know I'm past the checkpoint but I can't put it down. Time for some more!

Gosh...it took almost 500,000 bits to sharpen six characters from level 9 weapons to 12's on each...good thing money is easy to come by. ;)

Just keep rolling the dice. Gaspar's pockets are bottomless. He's da real MVP.

And yet, we cannot seem to ever come up with the cash when Camille bugs us for the money we owe her. Viktor must be VERY persuasive.

So.....guess who started last night? ;)  I put in about 3 hours.

Oh yeah, I named my guy "WangChug".........damn this 8 letter name limitation.

Err.... I told my co-worker my name. She pointed out the uh sort of "sordidness" of it that I didn't realize until just now. I was just trying to shorten Wang Chung. Luckily she's cool and we had a good laugh. Oh well, 3 hours in, not gonna change it. 8)

I was going to have a nice sit down last night but I realized I'm at the end of the game. I'll probably will finish it tonight as my wife will be out of the house until late so I'll have enough time to finish or at least get to the final save point.

Having said that, my checkpoints for the game are legit. The game just really isn't that long. I spent way more time recruiting this time. I got pretty much everyone except some main characters whom I did not prevent from getting killed and one right at the end whom I thought was already on the team but then I saw in a guide you have to do one more thing to actually get her, which I didn't do. I am almost certainly going to finish under the 30 hour mark. So yeah, I'm not going to get the ultra special alien unicorn director dog ending, but that's why God invented youtube.

I might mess around with my party before I really go for it. I have a party right now that is better built for common enemies but struggles a little bit in boss battles. I don't have anyone with healing spells for example.

So for S II, your name would be WCdohl. ;)

Who would be a good endgame healer to choose? Even being pretty leveled, I also have trouble with bosses since I only take the time to heal when someone is unbalanced and can use an item instead of wasting a turn. It is getting hard to finish the job pounding attack after attack before the boss starts to do some serious damage.

Healing mechanics are weird. Water and Earth runes have healing spells, but with the one slot limit its better to use high damage runes for high magic characters. I usually dedicate a weaker person in the party as a dedicated item healer, with a backup item healer planned if you take bigger damage.

Anyway, I'm in the middle of the Week 3 checkpoint. It seems based on levels that some of you are getting there if you haven't already. For those that haven't made it that far, avoid what's below.

Spoiler (hover to show)

RIP Gremio.

[img width=240 height=410]http://www.suikosource.com/images/chars/g/gremio01.gif[/img]

@Psycho I was going to pm you about a good endgame party but I think I know what I need to know. I think rather than worrying about healing magic I'm just going to go with mega medicines and sacrificial buddhas all around and focus on stronger attacks.

Having a bit of trouble with the Zombie Dragon at the castle. I assume that I'm not underleveled (lvl 17), but more than likely, I need better gear since I am taking pretty heavy damage. Losing too many members early on it seems even though I'm popping potions. And yes, I am using the fire rune abilities with Cleo. Doh! NEED MORE SHOULDER PADS.

I just passed the week 2 checkpoint last night.  Like I said before, the amount of options you have in terms of forming your party is pretty overwhelming, but it helps a lot that the game forces certain characters on you (even if it is kinda annoying sometimes).  I'm also leaving Pahn in my group for now as per the spoilers above, but he's getting the boot as soon as that's over.

So what characters are you guys rolling with mostly?  I hear Kirkis paired with another elf (I'd probably go with Sylvina) is a pretty good combo.  Valeria also seems pretty badass.  I just recruited Flik, is he a worthy endgame character?

You might want some better armor and check in at the blacksmith to make sure everybody's weapons are as sharp as you can get them. Have Viktor use his Boar Attack and heal when he's unbalanced. Gremio is a good dedicated healer since hes slow and his attacks suck.

I struggled with that as well. Died twice before beating it, ended the battle with Tir alone, and I think he only survived because he had four water runes equipped and was getting back 20 hp at the beginning of every turn.

Put in a few more hours last night. Upgraded my armor and pretty handily defeated the Zombie Dragon. Castle Krull acquired! I also ran around for a while and up to around 30 recruits.

So just a little commentary on the game so far.

PROS: I'm really digging the story line. A little Star Warsy, but that's okay. It's fresh and keeps me wanting to play more. I've just begun the recruiting phase, which I enjoy and yeah, I'm probably going to try and collect them all and set everything up for Suikoden II. I like the battle screen and unlike MSS (thankfully!) the battles are quick and painless (excluding boss battles of course). I love the evolution of the castle. It's cool that some characters relocated and it's fun to watch the improvements and additional options.

CONS: As someone else mentioned, I too am not a fan of the weapons and equipment system. However, I do like the implementation of "sharpening." With the multitude of characters, it's hard to keep up with and I wish that gear would just transfer to new parties. The use of runes and the best way to use them is a bit lacking in description. I broke out my manual last night and wouldn't you know it, there are some tips in there. Good to know. Also, the dice game SUCKS!

These few gripes are minuscule. I am very much enjoying my experience with this game.

I think I am too far into the game. ha ha. I don't exactly remember what happened before or after the second checkpoint, and what is safe to talk about. But I am definitely more into this game in the middle and the end than I was to begin with.

The game does so much more than just being an RPG, and if I had played it in '96 when it came out, I would have been AMAZED with the additional stuff you do that I have never seen in an RPG before. Also, this game seems so much shorter than many of the other RPG's I have played in the past. I couldn't say for sure though if it is shorter; since I have spent too many hours changing parties and travelling to meet the requirements to find new recruits.

Finding recruits isn't as hard or as time consuming as I thought it would be, you pretty much know whether or not someone will be a potential recruit by the way the look or talk, it is sometimes just a matter of determining which character you already have that needs to be with you to grab them. Sometimes the dialog helps with that, other times, you are left guessing.

I caught up last night and reached the 2nd checkpoint. I'm really enjoying the alternate combat sequences, though there seems to be a lot of luck involved in them at times. We can of course discuss these further after Week 2 is up. Really enjoying this game and even had to make myself walk away last night last night to watch the first match of the World Cup I had recorded. That's saying a lot. :)

Finished the game and only had to bust one sac buddy on the final boss!

A running joke in the series that started in this game with Viktor actually became a character in Suikoden IV. Schtolteheim Reinbach III

[img width=248 height=463]http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100328140755/suikoden/images/thumb/c/cd/Reinbach01.jpg/248px-Reinbach01.jpg[/img]

Haha! I thought about picking Reinbach IV for my name but I chose Masamune.

"Hey, Giant Woman" -- I couldn't resist sharing this quote. ha ha ha


Is it just a fun throwback, or is there some connection explained from Viktor's past that ties the two together?

Their existence is separated by a few hundred years.

[img width=700 height=393]http://i.imgur.com/i2AmRyd.jpg[/img] (http://imgur.com/i2AmRyd)

Couldnt stop my self :) and found all 108 stars of destiny

I have also found myself speeding through the game. I died three times trying to beat Neclord. There is a pretty obvious method that I had to backtrack to complete in order to defeat him, but I will save specifics on what I did for the end of week three if there is discussion on that battle.

I have tried to do it purely and get all 108 on my own without any guides or anything, but I am missing quite a few and may need to look a few of them up to make sure I get a perfect save; currently, I have 88 stars on the board when I count.

I found a few Unite attacks I wanted to comment on, but will still leave a spoiler tag in case some of the characters are not found before the week two checkpoint.

Spoiler (hover to show)

Tai Ho and Yam Koo combine for a unite attack that hits a single enemy HARD. I haven't done the math to see if this single attack does any more damage than two single attacks from each of the two characters. (four total attacks since the unite attack leaves both unbalanced), but even then, you can heal when unbalanced, so it is probably worth it even if the attack isn't as strong as if they were both to straight up attack each turn. Healing in this game is very important, and I like that, because I rarely have healing issues in other RPG's.

Kirkis and Stallion have a pretty cool attack animation that hits all enemies, but doesn't seem to hit as hard as Kai and Tir, not to mention the attack leaves them unbalanced afterwards.

Lastly, I tried the three person unite attack, "Beauty attack", that was mentioned earlier in a spoiler tag, and it seems to hit really hard too.

Are there any four, five, or even six person unite attacks?

I have a hard time putting this one down too.  These days it's rare for a game to suck me in like this one has.  Week 3 has barely begun and I've already reached the checkpoint!

@Boshamp:  I would have tried finding all 108 recruits on my own, but there are some that are missable.  I think a couple of the recruits have a very small window of opportunity for recruiting them also.  I would definitely recommend looking at the recruitment faq GrayGhost linked to earlier in the thread if you really want to have a perfect save file, but be warned that there could be major spoilers depending on where you are in the game.

I've been up most of the night powering through the last bit of this game and...

Spoiler (hover to show)

I felt like I was getting very close to the end, noticed I was still missing many of the stars, and teleporting everywhere didn't seem to be getting me anywhere. After travelling in order from recently visited to older places on the list, it turns out I was missing Antonio the chef. I am not sure how I missed a character that was from a city so early in the game, but once I recruited him, my castle evolved and at that point, other recruits seemed to open up to me.

I'm calling it a night, but will probably finish tomorrow. Only missing a few stars. Hopefully I am not as close to the end as I think I am...I spent too many hours wandering the world map and travelling aimlessly to recruit everyone only to miss one or two. Then again, this is super short and if one used a guide, it would probably only take 10-12 hours or so, especially with the way leveling works in this game.

There is in fact a five person unite attack if you have all five blacksmiths (That's right, there are five blacksmiths. I didn't even put that under a spoiler tag! Sorry to ruin the game everyone mwahahaha).

My favorite attack all unite was Meg and Juppo's "Trick Attack." Not super powerful but I kept them leveled and it did the trick on commons, pun intended. Plus it involves a cute cartoon sound effect and as I have posted before I just think Meg is super cute.

I'm glad to see a lot of people are getting sucked into this game.

Me too! Especially considering the shaky start a few of us had. It really has a "gotta catch 'em all" type addictiveness to it.

I forgot to mention I think I recruited about 100 people when all was said and done.

Also, I have a Psycho-approved info-graphic that I made about how to beat the final boss. I was going to save it for the last week of the playthrough but since people are blowing past the checkpoints I will post it under a spoiler tag if anyone would like to see it.

Whoa 5 blacksmiths? Damn, I just got #4. I've been using the first three as my back row for a while now. Took over $999,999 (aka max money LOL) to upgrade their weapons and armor.

I'm close to finishing week 3's checkpoint :) Whole party is level 46

Thankfully, recruiting the blacksmiths is pretty easy considering what they have in common. I tried the Blacksmith Unite attack and found it only used four out of the five individuals to perform the attack.

Also, I ended up caving in and using a guide for my last recruits towards the final moments.

Spoiler (hover to show)

How the hell was I suppose to recruit Clive without a guide? Aside from being lucky enough to go through Rikon once or twice in random searching and find that he was there, there is no indication this individual would be there. I mean, if an NPC had even hinted towards his infrequency, one might think to try back after each checkpoint, but no...I found nothing for in game help with this recruit...ugh...it is Bahamut from FF8 all over again...

I also found Pesmerga a lot faster than I would have alone, I never would have thought to go back to Neclord's castle and go all the way to the top. I wouldn't have gone back until I scoured all the actual cities two or three times each. Same went for templeton, I didn't think to go back to the tree once it burned until much farther into the game.

I agree with you thoughts here Boshamp and I too am using a recruiting guide since I plan on playing Suikoden II in the near future and we only have a month to finish this game. However, I have a little different perspective on the recruiting and maybe it's because I'm a little older. Suikoden came out in 1996 (around my Freshman year in college). I can tell you that during that time the "World Wide Web" as they called it, was still very much in its infancy. Hell, I even toted a Brother word processor to school and didn't have a personal computer until my senior year.....

Anyway, a big part of gaming back then was having these more difficult puzzles to figure out and once figuring them out, sending a letter or primitive email into a gaming magazine and also sharing it with others you knew. I think this was a very fun and exciting time for gamers and it resulted in a lot of time exploring and manipulating to uncover these gems for each other. Call me old (and you'd be right), but a lot of modern gaming is easier and quite spoon-feed, because that's what people want. We are a "fast food" culture, we want everything now and we want it quick; we want to be able to play and finish a game and move onto the next big title ASAP. And as a result, game developers have conformed to this ideology. The internet now provides quick access to walkthroughs, forums, and videos that make completing a game so much easier now. That exciting community of gamers who work to solve the ins-and-outs of a games with each other is more immediate and only a few clicks away at any time.

I'm not trying to be the grumpy old man who complains about the modern generation. Things change, technology changes, the gaming culture changes, etc. As much as I joke about it, I'm completely okay with it. I'm just trying to provide a little bit of perspective on what made these games exciting back then. What some people now see as an annoyance, we use to find challenging and immersing. Though I didn't play Suikoden back then, I played many other games like this and I remember going out and grabbing new magazines and people running into my dorm room who were excited about figuring something new out and sharing. Good times! :)   

I remember seeing a lot of those in Nintendo power and Gamepro back in the day. In 1996, I was still in elementary school, so I understand your argument. In 1996, I was working with programs on 5.5" floppies and all we used the school computers for was Math Blaster and Oregon trail. ha ha

Even still, without a guide, the circumstances around Clive are totally random and luck based. I could understand if there was a puzzle to solve in this case, and I have played many older games and RPG's especially without guides and not ran into something like this that was based on luck alone; I probably wouldn't know it if I did though, to be honest. But some information somewhere in the game that indicated Clive existed, and maybe even a cryptic hint that someone was visiting that inn, but never talked to anyone, something to let us know there was a puzzle to solve...

I love older games a lot more than anything from the newer couple generations because of difficulty, (Games I grew up with on the NES like Gradius, Contra, Punchout, TMNT, Fire N' Ice, Friday the 13th, and the one I struggled with the most: Battle toads and double dragon kept me and my brother gaming and trying to beat one another). I agree they have customized the newer games for ease of play and I hate it too, I want someone to develop a game with new graphics and such, but make it intentionally as difficult to master as the old school stuff and screw these impatient "new school" gamers who lack the true skill and patience we had to develop growing up.

Stuff like this though, in my opinion, isn't a matter of difficulty or one's problem solving skills, it is a matter of luck, involving no logic, neither easy to solve nor difficult to solve, rather, a matter of being in the right place at the right time. I more wonder if the character was suppose to have some type of hint attached, but it was forgotten.

Two words: DARK SOULS.

I haven't encountered the "Clive segment" of the game yet and perhaps that might change my perspective a little. Either way, I think you given us some good ammo to discuss on the podcast. :)

Thanks for all of the comments Boshamp and others. This is really how we would like the playthroughs to go and makes them really fun to play and discuss as a community. There are always going to be varying opinions on games and that's what makes us all unique and prefer what we prefer. Never be afraid to express your opinion....unless your name is Zagnorch. Then you're clearly wrong.

@GreyGhost: Well hell yeah. I know what I am playing once I finish both playthroughs.

@SingleBanana: I think you should post what you think about his recruitment when you get to that part. I look forward to seeing if you feel the same or different about it. I am always happy to see a difference of opinion being shared. Especially when it can remain respectful and not turn into a "I'm right, you are wrong, and there isn't anything you can say to change that" mentality.

What about Yuffie & Vincent on FF7? Were there any hints to finding either? Yuffie was basically in a really small section of trees and even when you found her she made you answer a bunch of questions to recruit her. :P

It sounds like a lot of us are going to move on to Suikoden II…we should start another thread after this play through is done to discuss it, even if it's not checkpoint based or anything it would still be cool to read everyone's thoughts on the next installment in the series. :)

That is a fantastic point. Just because I found them without a guide doesn't mean another person with another play style would have found those so easily. All this talk just want to make me go on an RPG binge...ha ha ha

I applaud you for playing without the guide or even the recruits guide for so long. That's the way Konami wanted it. Imagine someone finding the hardest character to find and then getting to brag about it at school to everyone else. "GASP, you got one-oh-EIGHT???" You would be wanting to bring your memory card to everyones house for proof ha!

What does everyone think of the soundtrack? Any favorite tracks? I just got to probably my favorite section of the game, after Qlon Temple's cave when you hear that pan flute and strings come in for "Days Past." Gets me ready to do what I gotta do.

I'm very close to the end of the game, pretty much at the point of no return.  I've read that it's a good idea to level up all the characters whose data transfers over to Suikoden II, so I've been spending some time doing that, although I wonder if it's actually worth it.


I think the soundtrack is fairly hit and miss.  I've heard a few tracks in the game that I really like, others that I don't like so much, and many that are somewhere in between.  I don't recall any of their names though, so I can't reference any specific track.

I'm with you here Disposed. Nothing really standing out to me in terms of music. A lot of it sounds the same and is on a pretty tight loop. I feel like I'm at a damn Renaissance Fair.  Ha Ha! :P

The music in the headquarters starts grinding my gears after awhile. Its just so short and in your face. Even if I only need to do 2 or 3 things there it will loop at least that many times, probably more.

Yeah, music isn't the game's strong suit IMO, but with that said, I have very little else to be critical of. Really enjoying myself so far. Haven't made to the Week 3 Checkpoint yet and just finished the "Pahn Event" last night. The World Cup is slowing my play down a bit.

just a heads up that the hosts are discussing this behind the scenes thanks to your suggestion highwind, so don't everyone go and start the sequel right away after finishing the first. if you wait a bit it might be a playthrough game in the very near future :) still working out the details though.

Also another heads up. Suikoden II is not going to be on PSN anytime soon. The rating has been pulled from their site.

 :swear:

What? It's a tragedy!

ooo, that might be a problem for a playthrough then...we'll see. more info to come as we decide what to do!

How hard would it be to find Suikoden II? I already own III and IV and am sure V and tactics might not be too hard since they are a lot newer than II is at this point.

Suikoden II is not hard to find. I think some RF Genners have found it in game stores before. There are an abundance on eBay if you're willing to pay $100+ for a copy though.

The last game I spent more than like $20 for was the Halo 3 Legendary edition on the night of it's release. I haven't started getting into the rarer titles I would have to drop some dough for quite yet. My wife did get me the Gears 3 Epic edition, which I know she spent 70 for, but since it was a gift, it doesn't count, right?

In any case, I certainly won't be dropping a Benjamin for Suikoden II, though. ;)

ya it's not the rarity so much as the price that's an issue if a newer cheap port isn't available. i think one or 2 gamestores nearby have copies too, both at market value of course :(

I hope I find my copy of II haha. I'd drop a ben frank on it - it's that good IMO. Don't think I've ever transferred a saved file over to II so I'm looking forward to that. I spent way more time playing it as a teen than the first.

Part of me wants to jump into II asap but I can hold off if we decide to do it in the future. I'll just finish FFX again :P

@banana i'd reply to your PM but every time I try my CPU starts freezing haha (MacBook overload, gotta reset soon :()

I have always strived to play all my games purely the first time around, then, if they are ones I enjoyed, following a guide to experience all the stuff I missed. Finding out why I miss stuff in games is always the most en-fun-riating (my play on words combining fun and enfuriating), reasons I play most of me games twice in this fashion.

Your second comment on the soundtrack is difficult to respond to...as I haven't played any games with the sound on for like 3-4 years. I live in cramped quarters and since I play after everyone else is asleep, I leave the sound down super low. I am probably missing out on a lot in many games because of this, but I tend to think of it as another reason to play the games again when I get a more distant space to play games in. Playing a game without sound, and then playing it again with sound will be like experiencing a whole different game. But on the flipside, sound can make important moments even more impactful, and if I experience them without sound, the play-through with sound may not be as shocking or impactful as it could have been the first time seeing, (and hearing) it.

I created a new thread for everyone to weigh in on the possibility of playing Suikoden II: http://www.rfgeneration.com/forum/index.php?topic=14115.0.  Unfortunately, a PSN version is not available at this time, and there have been people petitioning for years to get it. Howver, the game recently earned a rating (Teen) and for some accounts I have read, this could mean a release soon. I think it might be nice to have a playthrough party on it's release, but with no timetable, it's still up in the air as to whether this may or may not happen. I agree that Suikoden II is probably a great game and worth the price point (I picked it up recently for around $80), but I understand that this price is not within the budget of many of our members.

I'd like to hear from our community about this topic, so let's please move further discussion there and save this thread for commentary on the current playthrough.  Thanks guys!

I decided to just say 'screw it' to leveling up all the transferable characters and am just charging ahead with beating the game.  The EXP grinding was just taking too long, even with a Fortune Rune equipped (x2 EXP).  I'm not sure how long the endgame portion is, but I may possibly finish it tonight.

Also recruited all 108 Stars of Destiny!

Alright I think it's time to unveil my final boss artwork.

THIS IS A SPOILER! IT WILL SHOW YOU EXACTLY WHAT THE FINAL BOSS LOOKS LIKE AND HOW TO BEAT HIM! HOVER AT YOUR OWN RISK!

Spoiler (hover to show)

[img width=700 height=555]http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h32/grayghost81/IMG_20140614_090311_891-1_zps02746187.jpg[/img] (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/grayghost81/media/IMG_20140614_090311_891-1_zps02746187.jpg.html)

Is that a whiteboard or paper?

I peeked. Couldn't help it. Unreal.

That's an original Sharpie on HP Universal Printer Paper. Glad ya'll like it!

This interview with the creator of the Suikoden series was just released on Facebook by the Suikoden Revival Movement.

https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=619511931478328

Almost done with this one. All 108 recruited, all side quest items obtained, just needing to finish the final dungeon/boss...but it is late and I have to work in the morning. ha ha

Fun play on words I thought of altering, but involves a week 4 story-related recruit...

Spoiler (hover to show)

Tir: "So anyways, I was standing there waiting to march on the castle."
Pahn: "Yeah, he was, seriously."
Tir: "And this guy who I thought was dead, appears out of thin air and looks at me like this."
Pahn: "And who do you think that guy was?"
Tir: "Gremio Tenei"
Pahn: "The Axe of the Oath wielder, I swear to God, I was there."
Tir: "Of course you were, you were the one who yelled the heroic star's name."
Pahn: "I was like, "Gremioooooooooooo!!!""

I finished Suikoden last night.  Truth be told, I never actually beat this game way back in the day even though I always say I did.  I made it to the final boss, but after several attempts, I could never beat him.

Spoiler (hover to show)

I guess I never figured out that the heads had to be taken out in a specific order to keep them from respawning.

I kinda wish I hadn't looked at the drawing GrayGhost posted before because knowing the exact pattern made the fight too easy.  It would have been more satisfying to figure it out on my own.  Ah well....

It's been great revisiting this classic with you guys.  Looking forward to playing Suikoden II (hopefully) in the near future!

Isn't that a twist on a scene from A Night at the Roxbury?

I just beat the game. Here's a quick rundown of what you should do and who you should take to the final showdown in Gregminster.

Spoiler (hover to show)

If you looked at Ghost's graphic detailing the final boss you may notice one element that none of the heads are immune to. Earth. Hellion comes equipped with a Mother Earth Rune, and the level 3 spell on it Earthquake can damage every head at once. Her magic skill is naturally very high, and since her Mother Earth Rune cannot be unequipped then she is pretty much a requirement for your heavy magic user.

Kai as usual to get through the trash leading up the boss without issue. Load him up with Mega Medicine and have him item heal in the final showdown.

Valeria's Falcon Rune is a critical hit every single turn. Get her built up and take her along for this final ride.

Viktor, Flik, and Tir are required.

Make sure everybody has at least one stack of Mega Medicine so they can heal themselves in a pinch. And, in case you're paranoid, give everybody a Sacrificial Buddha for battle resurrection.

Front Row:
Viktor, Flik, Valeria
Attack: Attack: Falcon

Back Row:
Tir, Hellion, Kai
Attack: Turn 1 Guardian Earth, Earthquake until out of MP, then Heal if needed: Heal (attack if no heals are needed)

Hellion's Earthquakes damage every head, focus attacks on the left head until its dead, then the right, then finally the center. I did this and nobody needed to even use their Buddha.

Yes! I am so glad someone got the reference. ha ha ha

Spoiler (hover to show)

I just finished it as well. I hadn't examined the different base stats on characters, so I wasn't sure who would do well with magic over someone else, or who would benefit from a certain rune. I ended up going with all story-based characters for my final boss encounter; the required three with Gremio, Pahn, and Cleo. I didn't understand the difference behind all the runes as far as which were more powerful or what the spells within each were, so I just equipped all my characters with two buddas and a mega medicine each. I ended up with a Cyclone Rune equipped, which was very important to me succeeding in the final battle, allowing me to complete the task without using any buddas or medicine and being able to focus on attacking.

Finally, A few pics of my experience from the end.

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 Perfect Final Battle, no lives lost.
[img width=550 height=328]http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m232/Scott_Breaze/WP_20140619_002_zps0d6d4369.jpg?t=1403219825[/img]

All the paints from the side quest.
[img width=550 height=328]http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m232/Scott_Breaze/WP_20140618_001_zpsd3f8d963.jpg?t=1403219825[/img]

Chose a window setting from those items turned in to match my Colorado Rockies Baseball team. Sounds were pretty sweet to get also, and reading those eight books was a treat to learn more about the background of the story.
[img width=550 height=328]http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m232/Scott_Breaze/WP_20140619_001_zpse79db278.jpg?t=1403219825[/img]

And finally...The "Good" ending screen.
[img width=550 height=328]http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m232/Scott_Breaze/WP_20140620_002_zps81f44205.jpg?t=1403249295[/img]

I wanted to go over my endgame party/strategy as well:

Spoiler (hover to show)

My party consisted of:
Front row:
Flik, Valeria, Viktor

Back row:
Cleo, Tir, Tengaar

I had Flik use his higher level magic (Lightning Rune) until he ran out, then he did standard attacks.  Valeria used her Falcon rune the entire time.  Viktor did standard attacks with a Killer Rune equipped.

I gave Cleo a Flowing rune, making her my healer (used standard attacks if healing wasn't needed).  Tir used his level 4 then level 2 magic until he was out (or until there was only one head left, whichever was first), then used standard attacks.  Tengaar had a Rage rune equipped and used spells the entire time (except when I needed to attack the fire-immune head, then she used standard attacks).

I went with Tengaar because I wanted a dedicated mage, but I didn't like that most of the characters with higher magic stats were short range attackers.  Tengaar has a long range weapon, so she can sit comfortably in the back row.

Some other characters that were in my rotation throughout the game:
Sheena - good character, but felt too similar to Flik
Humphrey - strong, but slow and low magic stat means he takes massive damage from spells
Camille - good, but felt too similar to Cleo
Pesmerga - didn't use him long because his attacks seemed to miss often
Kirkis - don't remember why I stopped using him.  maybe his attacks were weak?
Pahn - good fighter, but magic stats were low and I wanted more versatile characters
Fu Su Lu - same as Pahn

I don't think it's been mentioned in this thread, but you can actually do unite attacks using spells as well.  I noticed this during the final boss fight when I used both Flik and Tengaar's level 4 magic (Lightning and Rage rune, respectively).

Neclord down. On to the finish line.

By the way, how do you know what level your castle is?

You get a little scene when it levels up. To check it leave on the boat and go right back in.

And if you lost track of that you can tell by the bath, which has a specific motif for each level.

I didn't know the bath changed with the levels, but that comment did remind me that I forgot to search for and keep all the antiques instead of selling them so I could display them in my bath. :(

I got the old book that shows the antiques…how the hell do you find some of those rare ones?

Just like finding Clive I assume...blind luck. After completing the game, I looked over some of the suikoden stuff on the 'net and saw that a lot of items either had a super low drop percentage, or were found in areas where you spend little time. (I got lucky with the Window setting from the Sunshine Kings in the dragon's den, I might have only fought three of them out of 6-7 battles in the den. Unless you knew to find the item there and grinded for the item, you might not get it. I assume the same is true for a lot of those antiques.)

they made the 8 books easy enough to find :) if you search everything you see.  but I dont remember if I got all the bath items. I had most

So this happened last night....

[img width=700 height=576]http://i1029.photobucket.com/albums/y359/necrom99/Video%20Game%20Scores/DB1BF159-34C7-4402-9C12-C79614362185_zps4s54kfgp.jpg[/img]

All 108 stars accounted for. :)

Get pumped up!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GD9T0pBPtM8

So, with today being the last day of the month, does anyone have any final thoughts on the game? If you finished it earlier in the month how do you reflect on your experience now?

I'd like to thank you guys for a great playthrough. It was actually pretty cool that a few of us had a rocky start but stuck it out and were rewarded with a memorable experience. This has been one of my favorite months in the community playthrough gang.

I'm looking forward to when we all get back together in September for Suikoden II which, if you think you liked the first game, will blow you away.

I loved it. I am normally against games with too many recruitables or more characters than I can use in one playthrough, but by playing this, I learned that is called "Replay value" and trust me...it worked.

I read a feature today and figured I would share it since we were talking about Sui II going to PSN.

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2014/06/30/ps1-rpgs-that-should-be-on-psn.aspx

I finished the game a couple days ago. I'm kinda sad it's over :( I've been doing some victory laps around different areas leveling up some of the other characters. Sucks Im forced to keep Victor & Flik in my party lol. Something pretty funny I just noticed earlier...I didn't know you could revive your characters after a battle lmao. I went back to the inns FF1 style every time. I didn't mind because I wanted to level up more anyway.

Hope to see you guys on the CT discussion and S II down the road :D

[EDIT] almost forgot, since I'm feeling generous everyone that participated in the play through is the winner of my little contest. Pretty much everyone got all 108 stars anyway haha. So PM me those addresses if you want to claim a mystery package!

I think I mentioned it earlier in the thread, but I originally played Suikoden back in the late '90s.  I had virtually no memories of the game, and my lasting impression was that it was a slightly above average RPG for the era.  So when I revisited it for this playthrough, I was pleasantly surprised by how much I was enjoying the game.  I walked away from it this time feeling like it is indeed the gem that GrayGhost says it is.

So with that being said, I'm definitely looking forward to playing Suikoden II when we get to it.  I've always heard that it improves upon the first game in many ways.  I have actually played about an hour or so of it in the past while testing a copy I sold on ebay, and I was immediately intrigued by the story.  I can't wait to see how the rest of the game plays out  :)

Thank you for being so generous!

That's awesome highwind!

I'm curious about this mystery package now...

I forgot I took this picture during the playthrough. If you bathe with all 6 party members as males but one of them is Milich then he bathes on the female side.

[img width=700 height=525]http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g436/gpro83/20140613_213625_zpskybaqth7.jpg[/img]