RF Generation Message Board

They're implementing a system where installations are mandatory and games are tied to accounts, so you have to pay a fee to install used games:

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/407912/microsoft-confirms-pre-owned-fee-for-xbox-one/

This is how I felt Microsoft's show was while watching the whole thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W45DRy7M1no

oh look a console i won't be buying. here's hoping sony doesn't go with the same thing.

I don't mind the mandatory installs, I install all my games already.  You have to think that the new games are going to take up a bit more space though.

I'm trying to reserve judgement on the used game install fee until I know what the fee is.  If we are talking 99 cents or 80 MS Space Bucks, it's hard for me to complain about that.  If it's $4.99+, I can't say that I'd be too happy.  I've said before that I don't really purchase too many used games so it doesn't affect me all that much but I understand that this is a BIG deal for people who want to lend a game to a friend, rent a game, GameFly a game, etc. I just don't mind waiting for new releases to drop in price so I just just buy new 6 months-1 year later.

Just remember, it could have been worse.  They could have gone the PC route.

Buy a physical game at a store, enter the code in your PC, the game is tied to your (most likely Steam) account.  You can't sell it or trade it without selling your Steam account.  

Might not be the popular opinion, that's just how I feel about it.

The problem runs deeper than that, what about when the service goes down in 10 years all the games and the system become useless chunks of plastic?

Eh so far none of the consoles looking that great to me. I may get PS4/Wii U eventually but not Xbox.

For now to me the next gen is with Vita and 3DS

Congrats PS4! You win this round lol

i have no problem with the HDD installs as long as they have massive drives, that part is actually good (yay minimal load times). but i really don't like the used game fee thing. i know i'm big on PC too and a lot of my games are the same way already, but i feel like that's just how PC has always been and consoles are supposed to be the "cheaper" way to game. i may eventually change my mind, and like you said it does depend on the fee amount, but i'm not happy that's for sure.

agreed with shoboni that's a good point. though at that point, if xbox live is gone and the risk of microsoft raging over mods/hacks is down, i'm sure there will be workarounds.

edit: i should add that whenever i buy a steam game i always treat it like a long term rental in my mind

But how practical will they be?

I will believe it when I see it. I have no intention of getting either of the next gen systems.

Everything I've read so far says that once the game is installed on the system, the disc won't be required for the game to run.  You probably do need an Xbox Live/internet connection to complete that process though.

Exactly. You won't be able to get any "new" games once the life-span runs out, and if the system goes you're screwed unless you can find another with a good chunk of original games with it, if it even runs at all without checking online at start-up for permissions. 

I understand your frustration, and I'm not saying that you aren't entitled to feel this way.  I'm just saying that for me, personally, I'd rather not miss out on the next 10 years of gaming because I'm worried that I won't be able to play these games in 20 years.

It might have something to do with the fact that I am NOT a current gen collector.  I'm only interested in a specific time period from the NES through the Dreamcast eras.  If I were planning on collecting current/next gen games, I might have similar feelings than you and many others on the internet right now.

Congrats PS4! You haven't stated what your intentions are with the used market yet!
...

Seeing this complete shitstorm going down might lead to them axing any used game charges they might have been planning. Microsoft made a huge mistake announcing this today, now Sony has all the chips on the table. Any halfway decent businessman would not want his product surrounded by almost universal hate.

Looks like Microsoft is telling the site they won't confirm the info came from them now, I wonder if they're back-peddling.

I really think companies "release" this info to see the response and go from there. It is a long time until both systems come out so stuff can change.

I know I'm late to the party on this one, but I don't really feel too badly about having to pay a small fee to play a used game. The key word being, small. Wouldn't a used game purchase plus an installation fee still be cheaper than a new game?

Time to go watch the big reveal so I'm on the same page as everybody.

Ok, no Alan Wake 2. Nothing to see here, moving along.

Assuming the PS4 won't follow suit isn't a foregone conclusion. The publishers are pushing this, and they are the ones that control where their titles go. If Xbox One is more profitable, they will get the bulk of content. Either way Sony was smart to at least not be the first one to say this out loud.

Personally for me, this reveal was terrible. I like the controller, and so far that is about it. I have a feeling this press event was more for investors, and certainly not aimed at the gamer market. I think this is a mistake, but until I see more information about games I'm not excited about any of the next generation systems.

I'm like Bil in that used game fees don't bother me as I tend to buy new when the price is low. I don't rent games either, but it does stink that I can't borrow games from a friend after this. The only flaw that I potentially see in their system is account sharing since you don't need the discs. You could access a huge library if you can just connect with a friend that works an opposite shift.

It is really clear that "collecting" for the Xbox One is pointless for me. Online activation negates any long term play past its life cycle, and in my mind gives it even less value than a service like Steam which will most likely outlive the lifespan of the Xbox One.

The news so far on this entire next generation so far is rather blah to me, but let's hope that E3 brings a better focus on the real reason I care about any of it: the games.

Edit: Now it seems to get worse: http://kotaku.com/you-will-be-able-to-trade-xbox-one-games-online-micros-509140825

It gets even worse. I don't know why, but Kotaku is actually all over this and doing fairly well today. They're much better at reveals and not at "LOL check out this random Japanese bullcrap! Isn't it awesome?"

http://kotaku.com/xbox-one-does-require-internet-connection-cant-play-o-509164109

Well, we knew Microsoft well, he may have been a grouchy old cougar that alway's wanted to borrow money and mooch of out of out fridge, but he was still a old friend we had some good times with

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5gef0AputM

Seems Microsoft folks can't get their story straight. I'm thinking the PR people are going to be working overtime with damage control from Phil Harrison.

http://majornelson.com/2013/05/21/xbox-one-and-used-games/

Yeah "When signed in to YOUR profile" that doesn't dispel anything at all.

They'll find a way to charge $1 for a profile transfer.

That lets me know everything I wanted to know - it's exactly like DRM on Xbox 360 right now.

Only on downloads, this is on actual game discs as well.

It's exactly like the DRM on downloadable titles on Xbox 360 right now. They are just broadening it to all titles.

The DRM is the same - I never implied that the retail discs had DRM on Xbox 360. I fail to see how this is a problem though for normal gamers who consume mostly digital titles these days. It's starting to look like this is going to be the start of the end of physical media though.

I'm not normal? :(

That's the thing, most of us don't, or Gamestop would be gone.

I'm pretty sure you're the farthest thing from normal.
Don't look so sad about it though, its a good thing.

I'm not normal! :D

You know what, screw being normal. We're the proud and the few weirdos.

Apart from the odd exclusive what would be the point of buying xbox one over the steam box?

All the annoying aspects of steam, but with an uncertain future and the games will cost more - plus as it is still using physical media it won't have the great sales and bundles you get on steam.

Most of "us", meaning the dwindling percentage of people that still purchase physical media instead of digital content?
Digital music sales eclipsed physical media sales in 2011. It took 10 years for that to happen. Steam's been plugging along for how many years now?

Not trying to parade my own company around, but considering they were the first major publisher to jump into the digital pool instead of tip-toe into it, the following article should show where the industry's rapidly heading in the next year or two:
http://seekingalpha.com/article/1416431-electronic-arts-beats-the-industry-slump-with-digital-revenue-growth

Very very possible, despicable if true.  And I won't be getting behind any form of DRM they try, whether it's requiring an internet connection or charging even a penny.  It's talking down to the consumer, claiming authority.  They are up in The Cloud on a throne of skulls and thorns, and when we peasants insert a disc, they begrudgingly wave their dark staff and give us permission to play what we have purchased... for a short while.  Something to that effect.

Even if it was a 100% honest good-natured attempt to simply solve the "problem" of used game sales, it'd still be a form of gaming tyranny.  So, nah, I'll stick with the Computer/Wii U/Ouya combo team!

Siiigghh... I just hope Banjo, Conker, and the rest of the Rareware gang can escape Microsoft's legal clutches someday.  :'(

EDIT: Oh, and not to mention that the new creepy hyper-sensitive Kinect 2.0 is required in order to use the console.  Ha, most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

Oh look, consoles are going in the inevitable direction that I've been telling you they were going to go for three years!

The stupid part is that consoles are just turning into non-modifiable PCs. So we get stuck with devs using the same graphics hardware for a freaking decade so all the console gamers buy their games.

In two generations all video (tv, movies, etc.), gaming, and "computering" will be done on the same device with phones/tablets probably coming packaged with them. Be interesting if the console companies can survive the transition.

Xbox One might be an even more stupid name than Wii U.  Xbox one came out in 2001, and now 2013?

No secondary market has been an ongoing debate for what 10+ years now?

People parade Steam around and PC gaming but (to me) that is what it looks like the Nextbox is trying to emulate.


I and apparently thousands of others thought the system looked like a VCR. I was not overly impressed with anything.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kENCgBu2o4&feature=youtu.be
Got me interested in how much more potential the next kinect has.

Other than that i'm still not really interested in anything it has to offer.

I don't see why it is so shocking profiles would carry over. They carried from Xbox to 360.
But for some people even that isn't really good news. I know there are quite a few people out there who have profiles that kills their current system and i doubt anything will have been done to fix that current problem. Most likely even more info will be getting dumped onto your profile making it larger and causing even more lag.

Instead of trying to make everything work with everything else and still keeping everything separate they should have focused on making a cohesive fully functioning market place. Their Sales and Special app for example was a complete disgrace. Having a GFWL, Win7, Win8, Win8 PC, XBLA, and a couple other market places all chopped into different locations. Some use MSP some only use debit. Stupid.


They get a +1 for further improving the controller while still maintaining the same design (much like Sony has done in years past)

They get a +1 for making the Kinect 2 MUCH more capable (this is tentative though. Much like the Wiimote and the Kinect it still needs to see actual useage). Based on some of the homegrown Kinect stuff i have seen vs retail applications though i think part of the kinect problems was on the developer ends.
Addressing the lighting and space concerns makes me happy to hear though.


Everything else was a wash in my book.
I don't care about any of the features they have included that were stolen from a PC. If my cuz stays in Japan i could potentially use it for Skype. But i have that on my PC. I have Netflix on my bluray player. I have the internet on my PC i have music on my PC.

I use my gaming consoles for gaming.


I'm certainly not impressed enough to go out and throw down a preorder so i can get 10$s off when i buy it.
EA backing them with exclusive feature should work in their favor.
Activision backing them with CoD content first will certainly help them.

Seemingly not expecting backlash from the obvious issues they have hurt themselves. I didn't find any of the conference thrilling but from a financial standpoint they seem to be off to a good start. Assuming they can keep those deals under lock and potentially secure more.


BTW i was watching a few stocks during the confrence. MS was down between .09 and .2
EA bounce between 2-3% up. Dips generally occured shortly after mentions of exclusivity. Which seemed odd.
Activision showed little change throughout and was up before the confrence started so i didn't keep close tabs.
Sony was down a tad(less than MS)
Nintendo was up around 2-3%

Since i don't follow those stocks frequently and the conference seemed to have so little impact i can assume it is just normal trading cycle. It was interesting though that up stocks seemed to drop a bit and down stock seemed to drop lower when they were talking and when they were showing videos they would inch back up.

EDIT SINCE THERE HAVE BEEN RESPONSES SINCE I STARTED TYPING
Blck is completely correct. Xbox 1 is a terrible name.

I also agree with Leon. I don't think that PS9 commercial from 10ish years ago is going to come to fruition. MS, Sony and Nintendo will all be around for a long time to come. Regardless of what happens with the gaming market 2 of them have other business ventures and Nintendo has MASSIVE brand recognition and like Sega and Atari is here to stay regardless of the form it takes or who has to buy their IPs

Sony's stock was up due to a separate announcement, not due to the conference just as an FYI.

Sony Entertainment
22.91+1.94 (9.25%)

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/05/21/sony-stock-up-nine-percent-after-xbox-one-reveal


Nintendo
13.99    +0.35 / +2.57%

Microsoft Corporation
34.85-0.23 (-0.66%)

Electronic Arts
21.97+0.18 (0.83%)

Activision Blizzard Inc
15.57+0.39 (2.57%)

How much more will the packed in Kinect 2 add to the final price tag? Microsoft could have themselves a 599 US Dollars moment on their hands, and if Sony turns around and offers the PS4 for 200 less its going to be a complete bloodbath on the sales charts. All Sony has to do is play their cards right and they're in the best position to claim another generation with complete dominance.

I believe you will see Sony dominate the marketplace, just like PS1/PS2 did back in the day.

I'm waiting to see how SteamBox compares at this point. The market leader has shifted in each of the 3D generations.

I think if the Ouya and Steambox play their cards right they could get a foothold.
I'm more interested in seeing how they turn out than the big 3.

Steam has its followers but i can't see PC guys running out to buy a new system when they have already been vested in PCs for so long.

Ouya is probably going to bow out from lack of publicity. It has been publicly backed by some pretty important people/companies but has ANYONE heard anything about it since i started a thread months ago?

Since i have been banging around on Twitter today i was able to see that the general public doesn't consider WiiU next gen and the only things i have seen mentioned about PS4/Nextbox have been questions about how X game will look or what they can do. Really all we have now is a system and controller design and a ton more speculation. Really nothing has been shown than IMO basic tech demos.

EDIT
Again i have to say based on what i have seen thus far the next gen (including Wii U) does not entice me.
Out of the 3 if nintendo can crank out some quality first party stuff i'd probably be most interested in getting a WiiU since i am sure that is going to have the lowest price point. Especially by the time the next two big boys throw their hat in the ring.

The only thing i am intersted in that Xbox has to offer is the next Halo installment and i can get the story from that online if i don't want to shell out the cash.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m01divp3rkA&feature=youtu.be

EDIT
Thus far what i have watched i love how uncomfortable Kotaku guy looks.
He seems slimy. Which is tough to say since the other guy up there is from Spike.

EDIT 2
lol Kotaku guy even toes around people not considering Nintendo next gen at the end.

Yeah that's that asshole that runs the VGA awards. He's completely full of himself and has his head shoved so far up his own rear that he wouldn't know real journalism if it pistolwhipped him in the balls.

I've heard nothing but bad things about Kotaku.

As far as this whole Microsoft thing goes......oh well.  I think I'm done buying new systems anyway.  There are too many good old games that are overlooked that I still haven't played or even heard of and most of which are just a few bucks. 

Sumbich, look at the size of that monstrosity!  It had better be powerful.

^^ @ Both of you ^^

I'm not a big fan of Spike and while i rip on Kotaku all the time i still read their drivel.
I gave the first Spike Gaming Awards show a shot and i don't remember catching much of it because it was so terrible.

@ Techi
They are saying it has the equivilant of the whole 1998 internet power to back it!
I have little hope.

Don't forget, this is Sony we're talking about.  They're almost certain to screw something up.


Their stock price has also risen due to the Yen being strong currently.  The funny thing about the rumor of the entertainment division being spun off is that Sony has absolutely no interest in doing that.  A hedge-fund manager declared he'd take the entertainment division off their hands, but Sony immediately turned it down.

Nupoile pointed out in chat that Gamestop stock prices dropped after the conference during when the secondary market kill of speculations started taking off.

I just finish watching the reveal on Xbox Live and it appears that, even with Smart Glass, they have not offered the ability to actually play your games on a compatible laptop.  I know it's a stretch, but it would be a nice bonus with their push to the f'n cloud that I hate hearing about.  USB compatible Xbox type controller?  Just think of the possibilities while on the go.

Sure you would have to purchase an actual Xbox One, but I spent more on this laptop than I predict the console will be sold for.  And right now all Smart Glass offers is the ability to use it as an Xbox remote control.

Xbox One reveal summed up in less than 2 minutes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbWgUO-Rqcw

All you need to know, really, since the actual presentation consisted of how many talking points and buzzwords M$ could cram in a hour long presentation. Not even going to bother watching E3 this year, it'll just be more of the same, I expect. As a collector and gamer, I'm done with M$. They still can't even get basic console design and a controller right, but hey, you'll have to use Kinect 2.0 anyway, and you can watch TV... ON YOUR TV!! WHOO!! ???

Nintendo and Sony basically got first place for the next generation handed to them unless of course, Sony screws up and allows publishers to block used games or some other anti-consumer DRM policy, or the Wii U continues to have first-party games no one really cares about.

I'm beginning to think this is the endpoint for the big consoles. I expect Generation 8.5/9 will belong to the tablet and smartphone market, and possibly Steambox. Sad really, but this is a different gaming market now, and one I'm reluctant to join, if at all. :tinfoil:

I'm reading many less than favourable comments about the next Xbox which makes me wonder how many of us are interested in buying the console.

So, who's planning on purchasing the Xbox One (at launch or down the road after a price cut)?

Umm what? The Xbox 360 controller kicks ass.

Also why was anyone surprised by what happened at this event? This kind of games in the back ground has been going on for years. I have seen nothing that makes me think Sony, Nintendo or M$ (oh look how clever I was using a dollar sign, stupid companies wanting to make money). Well I can see how Nintendo wont do anything but Sony and Microsoft are still up in the air.

360 controller is great barring the floating D-pad.
That has been replaced on some versions of the controller and looks like it has been fixed from day one on the Nextbox.

Also
$on¥
Micro$oft
Nint£ndo

Euros are worth more than dollars. Nintendo the bigger rip off? Or is Sony since it has 2 currencies in such a short name?

Stupid that companies want to make money. What the hell are they thinking?

It'll be in my house day one...

My interest in that console went to 0 after yesterday.

Shocking

Same here. I have no plans to get one this year or next year.

After this one? I don't think I will until it's no longer supported and the lock has been disabled one way or the other.

I will be the first to own a hacked one so I can play used games.

I believe that.

I might get one, depending if it doesn't launch too close to the PS4 ;)

I'm not super interested YET but for now I can see myself possibly getting one

Here is the new phrase i want to see catch on for the Nextbox

SPORTSBINGTERNETEXPLOERSKYPEbox.

Make it happen people.

If Microsoft or Sony finally integrate sports, bing, internet, AND skype into a single machine I'll buy.







Oh wait, it's called a computer!

Well played. I thought you were going to say a smartphone.

But if you don't buy a Nextbox how will you watch TV?!?
What will you use Smartglass with!?!?!
How will you be able to connect with up to 1000 friends?!!?

I dont get you guys. People say it doesnt look as good as a PC. Console markers make a system more like a PC. The people say ITS A PC!!!!!! Looking at the trends of gaming systems they are no longer called gaming consoles they are called ENTERTAINMENT machines. WTF did you guys think it was going to be? Back to no online plays games, cds and movies only?

Remember when game systems played games?  That was a good moment

Remember when you played games and didn't schedule boosting sessions for 10 hours a day? :P

More news:
http://www.trueachievements.com/n13327/xbox-one-answering-some-questions.htm

Internet dropping for only a few seconds or minutes is laughable. Guy is a jackass.

The game being linked to the tag(and/or system) is the same thing Sony was going to try and do with the PS3(and PS4?). Sounds like it is going to work the same way as digital content works now. I own it and can play it anywhere so long as i am connected to the internet and it can veryfy i own it. For offline play i have to be on the same system i originally activated it on.

I don't understand the massive confusion with profiles being moved around from 360 to Nextbox. It carried over once why would it be impossible to carry over again. I also don't see why you wouldn't be able to jump back onto a 360 after putting your tag on a Nextbox. Unless they added some devious code to the new system that made it incompatible with the 360. Which is entirely possible further into the Nextbox life and later into the 360 life. I don't think they would hurt them selves that bad right away.

Nextbox not being BC with 360 games/digital content is a bad omen. If we are only on the "second" generation of digital content being thrown at us for everything and we can't use it i can certainly see this becoming the norm and like many people have said digital content actually being a "long" term rental. A year or 2 or less doesn't seem very long term to me though.

Harddrive not being accessible is something i do not like. Having to install all your games is something i do not like. The cloud is something i do not like.

Peace out Next Gen i'm back tracking or hanging with the Wii/360/PS3/WiiU gen for another several years. (Most likely)

You should go back farther. Those systems can do more then just play games. You need a N64 and back.

[img width=500 height=372]http://i.imgur.com/pFlpiE5.png[/img]

1000 times this.

I'm probably in the minority here, but I've never liked the Xbox controller design. Only one I was ever somewhat comfortable with was the Xbox Controller S on the original Xbox. The 360 controller just feels awkward as heck to me. Now that I look at the new Xbox One controller closely, At least M$ got a couple of things right: They got rid of the stupid D-pad and replaced it with a standard cross, and that pregnant bump on the back is gone now. But it still looks like the spacing is further apart, and my hands aren't happy with it. I dunno, maybe that's why I suck at shooter games this gen. :p

It doesn't take away from the fact that M$ is pretty anti-consumerist and anti-gamer with their new 'reveal'. And unlike the 360, this time around, Halo and whatever 'exclusive' games Microsoft has won't be enough to save the console if Microsoft doesn't change its stance and insists on fees for used games, connecting to the internet at least once a day, no BC (better hang onto your 360 for XBLA stuff, at least until the servers inevitably go down), and forced mandatory game installs (1 TB HDD or cloud storage on Nextbox?). Maybe M$ can pull a miracle at E3, but I kinda doubt it.

I also love how Sony and Nintendo's stocks immediately shot up right after Microsoft's big reveal yesterday. Telling.

Both Sony's and Nintendo's share prices have fallen more than twice what Microsoft's have today.

MSFT - 34.61  -0.24
NTDOY - 13.49   -0.50
SNE - 22.15   -0.76

Here you go.
Nintendo Sony MS Activision EA and Gamestop.
http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=NTDOY+Interactive#symbol=ntdoy;range=5d;compare=atvi+msft+sne+gme+ea;indicator=volume;charttype=area;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=undefined;

Sony apparently has been on the uptick lately from NONgaming news since you know they do make tons of stuff besides the PS. Also the stock market on the whole has been on a rise (look at anything beyond the last week and you will see it at a high and destined to hit another bubble. I could just be cynical though)

Reasons for including those companies in the chart:
MS/Sony/Nin - obviously all competitors. Stocks are not always a fair comparison though since Sony and MS have other ventures that effect performance. Nintendo only has gaming.

Activision/EA - Included because they were both important parts of the reveal. Both offering exclusive and/or advanced content to the Nextbox over WiiU and PS4.

Gamestop - Because the potential hit to the secondary market directly effects them.

Required codes could also help kill of the remaining rental brick and mortars (Blockbuster? Anyone else?) and Gamefly.

Another Anti-Nextbox article i got from a (afaik) long time 360 supporter.

http://www.bloodwcinnamon.com/art/xboxone.html
(Has anyone figured out yet that i am not thrilled with Nextbox?)

I got a kick out of it. Loved how it ended.

Spoiler (hover to show)

Phil Harrison said something particularly special today after the big show. After installing a game and activating the key, "You have permission to play that game as long as you'd like," he said.

Really? I can play the game I paid for? As long as I like?

I'm largely an Xbox player and was super excited about the new reveal.  Honestly though, what was there to be excited about?  I don't mind the system requiring an internet connection, my computers have basically relied on that for the past decade.  Still, I can't help but be annoyed by the used game fee.  Sure as a collector that goes without saying, but just the mere thought of actually having to hunt down a new copy of a game that's been on the market for a while or not being able to lend a friend a game is demoralizing.  The whole internet marketplace scenario makes sense moving into the future, but how well did the PSPGo really fare?  I think models like Steam have worked well because people know what they are paying for without closed curtains--most people are still wanting the console experience they have grown accustomed to. Am I still going to buy one? Yes, and a PS4.  Why?  Because I'm retarted and compulsive like that.  I own a Wii U, and Vita despite not having really seen any worthwhile content on those yet. 

I think Microsoft is trying to dig themselves a giant hole to China!

http://www.polygon.com/2013/5/22/4355984/xbox-one-backward-compatibility-backwards-thinking-don-mattrick

I'm sure he thinks it is backwards. Hard to charge people a second time if they can just keep using all the online games they already have. Nintendo seems to share the same philosophy for digital, but at least they are charging less to "upgrade" VC games to the Wii U.

I don't know many people who used the BC capabilities of the 360 because it was terrible, so 5% of people using a broken feature does not surprise me. Games would freeze more frequently, crash, various bugs and glitches would come out, all because the software emulation sucked.

I know a lot more people that use the BC of the PS3, especially if they have their old childhood favorite PS1 games around still.

i was thinking the same thing, as well as backwards compatibility for gamecube on the Wii, and Wii on the Wii-U. of course people use it less if it doesn't work.

edit: this might be one of the fastest expanding topics i've seen on RFG, over 5 pages of posts in just over 24 hours.

Same here, backwards-compatibly(aside from the Wii) was so broken last gen that I really don't see it as a new issue. That, and outdated consoles can be had so cheap it isn't a problem.

And now Microsoft is even kicking the indie developers to the curb. Unless they want to go through Microsoft or find other publishers willing to take a chance on them.

http://www.siliconera.com/2013/05/22/indies-wont-be-able-to-self-publish-games-on-xbox-one/

So after they spent a whole generation supporting Indie, they're telling it to *bleep* off?

Depending on the price of buying a new game license I might still buy this.  If it's $5?  Sure, no problem, I'm on board.  If it's $20?  Go fuck yourself.  This is a terrible idea that will alienate a huge portion of the gaming public, not to mention Gamestop.  You think their going to dedicate as much floor space to the new Xbox as they will for the Wii U or the Playstation 4 assuming they don't go the same route?  Hell no.  They'll get the Playstation 2/PSP corner of the store.

Essentially Microsoft is trying to sell you a PC that can't be upgraded, doesn't have as much functionality as a regular PC with even more stringent DRM restrictions.  It's like they haven't been paying attention lately.  Limited numbers of installs or each game?  That failed and almost every developer that included it patched it out of the games.  Required internet connection?  Ask SimCity 5 about that.  This is just an absurd direction to take this.  Take all of the failures of the PC and put them on your new console.  Brilliant.

I'm not even saying they should stick to the old media model.  If it was a purely digital system, I could at least applaud them for trying to embrace new technology trends.  The fact that they are sticking to the old media model but putting it into a digital distribution framework is just ridiculous.

I don't know if any of what I just wrote made sense.  I just kind of mentally threw up all over this post.  I'm just so sick of being treated like a criminal by game companies.

I have a feeling Microsoft will strike a partnership with Gamestop/ Best Buy in which you would pay the fee when buying the used game--in the way you can buy dlc at retail now.

I was just thinking about this this morning and that probably is what's going to happen.  The only problem is that Microsoft just priced themselves out of the used game market.  Assuming Sony doesn't do this, their games will consistently be cheaper than the Xbox Stupidname's games.  That can only last for so long before people start flocking to the PS4.  You'll also very rarely see newer used games for sale.  Now when a game comes out, you can buy it for $60 new or $54 used.  That extra license fee charge just bumped up the used price up to new price.  Sure, Gamestop could sell the new used game for $50 instead of $54 to make up for the license fee and still keep the option of buying used attractive, but what company is going to be happy that they get to lose that much potential profit on every unit sold.

Sweet Lord I've spent way to much energy bitching about Microsoft lately.  I've got to go do something else or I'm going to get into raving fanboy territory.

...who's to say that GameStop and GameFly won't strike a deal, and include a limited-time license to the game (GameFly) or a discounted full license (GameStop)? Everyone's freaking out over speculation...

[img width=340 height=340]http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/38117378.jpg[/img]

Hell folks, they haven't even shown off the capabilities of both consoles yet - just videos and marketing materials. I'll make my educated decision once the rumor mill has died down and concrete details are given closer to the launch.

Dammit, I was reeeeeeaaaaaallly looking forward to the XboxOne

Well, Dan Adelman, the guy that was pretty instrumental in supporting the indie scene for 360 has defected to Nintendo of America. Now Nintendo is being praised for their open support and promises to the indie scene and Sony is following suit. Coincidence?

https://twitter.com/Dan_Adelman/status/337238668924317696

It's the principle of it, the fees shouldn't be there PERIOD, discounted at GS or not.



That explains a lot.

the used fee isn't $5 from what i've seen, it's the full price of the game...so if you paid $50 at EB, you'd still have another $50 to pay to microsoft, unless like kida says they work out some sort of deal.

Well Microsoft later clarified that the price of the fees have yet to be determined.  It would be great if the fees were eliminating altogether after a game has aged in the same fashion that dlc becomes free for older games nowadays.

If the WiiU or PS4 had indie games, that would be sweet!!!

It's old, buy Angry Joe did a rant about the reveal:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9ekOtn7L1N0

Sony and Nintendo signed hug deals with Unity.
Also Mutant Mudds developer said how easy it was to get games on Nintendo platforms and a pain in the ass Valve is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbWgUO-Rqcw&feature=player_embedded

This article was referenced over at NeoGAF and sheds some light on how the trade-in system will work:

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/publishers-to-receive-cut-of-xbox-one-pre-owned-sales-at-retail/0116137

"The retailer can then sell the pre-owned game at whatever price they like, although as part of the system the publisher of the title in question will automatically receive a percentage cut of the sale. As will Microsoft. The retailer will pocket the rest."

Wii U sales are skyrocketing right now. I think people were waiting to see what Sony and MS had to offer before diving into a new system, and right now, to a hell of a lot of people, Nintendo looks like the way to go despite weak hardware.

that doesn't sound terrible, but it depends on what sort of price the retailers try to set

Upvote for giving me more hilarious news to read.

I have been pretty obvious about having no want to jump into the next gen but the only way people can show they are against something is with their wallets and it is certainly good to see it happened. Maybe MS will start digging out of the hole instead of digging it deeper.

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Xbox-One-Poor-Reception-Blasts-Wii-U-Sales-By-220-56021.html

Closing line is excellent
" Congratulations Microsoft, you just sold more Wii Us than Nintendo."

Just been reading some other bits of info on the xbox one, none of it impresses

First up is the xbox one will boost it processing power by up to 4 times - apparently latency is not on issue as it runs on magic:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/124325-Microsoft-Claims-Cloud-Will-Quadruple-Power-of-Xbox-One?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=news

The game disc are basically installers and sound like once installed you won't need them any more:
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Xbox-One-Game-Discs-Install,22690.html

Kinect has to be plugged in to the console at all times
http://uk.ign.com/articles/2013/05/21/xbox-one-will-not-function-without-kinect-attached

I've said this in various places already but if I had to pick a two system duo for this gen like people did with PSWii or Wii60 I would go for the PS4 + Wii U combo. I call it Pii U.

I remember the complaints from the start of this generation.

• Wii "waggle"
• $60/year for LIVE (aka premium online gaming"
• "Achievements are ruining gaming."
• Price hike from $50 to $60.
• DLC and downloads.

Now look at gaming.  PS3 picked the first four habits, and Xbox came out with the kinect.  Downloads are always a concern for collectors and are something of which we will be wary.

Look at us now!  Paying for online service isn't too big of a deal.  Achievements have us addicted to picking up every new release (even sports titles), and some of those arcade download releases are must haves.

---

Console design, marketing, and sales


Bump #1
I do not envy console makers this time around.  It seems like something as long standing as watching old-fashioned television has changed as the big screen has to compete with tablets and smartphones for viewers attention.  Gaming requires dedicated attention, and if you're an online gamer who shares living quarters with others, chances are you put your life on hold... one match at a time.

Bump #2
Used game sales is a big thorn in the side of the industry.  Companies like GameStop can attribute their entire profit structure to the resale of used games... often selling the same disc 5x over.  Even Wal-Mart, Best Buy, and amazon.com are digging into used games with mixed success.

We've seen the transition to DOWNLOAD ONLY coming for some time now, and developers have taken different approaches.  EA kills their sport servers after two seasons.  Meanwhile, companies like Epic try to make sweet deals for new game buyers with one-time downloads, like the Gears 2 "flashback" map pack.

I'm quite certain developers would like the download-only structure because it involves direct sales.  Resale only gives profit to the reseller.  With how popular online gaming is now, the thought of being require to be online to play is not that big of a hurdle; especially for the people who will continue to buy new games.

Personally, I would like to see the return of the $50 price point if they are going to want to make progress on cutting out used sales.

Bump #3
Retail.  Traditionally, console sales have been subsidized.  For the first year or two, console makers lose money on each unit sold.  .  For the console maker, the profit comes from software sales, and after 10-12 titles purchased, the cost of the console is offset.  Meanwhile, retailers also don't see any profit in console sales, only occupied shelf space.  They see a modest profit on software sales (on part with music and film) so carrying the hardware is necessary to promote software sales.

The problem for console makers is that if they cut out physical discs is that retailers will be less likely to sell their hardware.  Keep in mind, this past generation Wal-Mart became one of the biggest retailer for video games in the US.

---

Timing

In the past some big announcements have been teased before E3.  The Wii remote stands out in my mind.  I think this gives the media several weeks to chew on it before the big show.  Otherwise, the shock becomes overwhelming.

I've had time to relax, and even without seeing what they have to offer at E3, I'm sure I'll be enjoying my state-of-the-art satellite receiver =]

I'm not at all surprised by all the things the Xbox One does. It was pretty clear this was coming. I can't believe though that Microsoft went Nintendo-stupid with their naming. The One? I already have that system! Not to mention this is yet another system people will just call "the Xbox", adding further to confusion. Props to Sony for sticking to a logical numbering system, which also enforces people to abreviate their systems in a logical way: PS1, PS2, PS3, PS4.

- The hardware is fairly timid compared a today's average PC (built today, not owned today).
- A 500GB harddrive will fill up instantly.
- Used games will require a fee to be activated, which will likely be 75% of the cost of the original game.
- It needs to connect daily.
- Kinect is needed for the system to work.
- The system/Kinect is always on.

Fun things they could do with Kinect:
- See what you're doing while the system is "off". (this is the obvious one)
- See when a person walks into the room and stop showing you content because you've gone over the treshold of people allowed.
- See when a person walks in and charge you more for content, because another person started watching along.
- See whether it's really you playing and not your friend. If it's your friend, charge you extra! (this one would be super cruel)


Personally, I'm not all that excited. Microsoft really wants this to be your entertainment center and not just a console. I'm kind of expecting the same from Sony, although if Sony decides to not do some of these things (always on, no used games) that would be nice.

It does look like a VCR, my first thoughts to.

I will buy ONE but only if it is lunched at under $300 and/or has a lifetime warrenty. Other wise Im just blowing money away one a VCR thats going to crap out on me.
I thought Mircosoft could do better considering how badly there being dominated by Apple.

Im thinging the new PlayStation is going to be all aboot 3D.

So apparently the Xbox One will only have HDMI and nothing else? Fuck that noise, as if I needed another reason to hate modern gaming

Why would you use anything but HDMI for a console that is meant to output in full HD?

One issue I have for their big push into TV is the inability to handle over the air broadcasts. I don't have cable or satellite, just an antenna. There is no way to pipe that into the XB1.

Trying to appeal to everybody pleases nobody.

Achievement hunters be prepared for a new slew of unobtainables?
Assuming it is real?

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-05-24-microsoft-applies-for-patent-on-tv-achievements

Isn't that the point of television?

Equally funny is how half the show was about all the TV shows you'll be able to watch on your Xbox One........if you live in the US. All of that stuff will likely never work anywhere else in the world.

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/139706-microsofts-new-kinect-patent-goes-big-brother-will-spy-on-you-for-the-mpaa

This is another disturbing patent.

ahh Xbox One, playing hard to get i see.

Yep.

Wow. Just... wow. I didn't think it could get worse: http://m.ign.com/articles/2013/06/06/microsoft-details-xbox-one-used-games-always-online

I still can't get over how bad they're blowing this.

Yatzhee's video today pretty much told people to not buy a next-gen console. I think the return of the PC to the forefront of gaming is nigh.

What's worse about these announcements?  I think the rumors were more severe.

For me it is the verbiage "can enable" and "participating retailers."

"can enable" says to me that by default, it isn't enabled. Meaning that no used game sales unless they want to turn that feature on.

"participating retailers" tells me that they are going to squeeze out the small stores that I enjoy going to. But hey, there's always GameStop.  ::)

I agree with your reasoning.  Hopefully they allow "participating retailers" to encompass the local mom & pops.  I guess this would render reselling online or in person useless, unless they establish the online marketplace that was mentioned before.  With EA recently eliminating online passes, I hope that even the big names realize the detriment of instantly changing the console ecosystem.

It's just altogether too convoluted and obnoxious. Don't we just want to play freaking good games?

Backwards compatibility was NEVER an issue until PS2, and now all of the sudden people act like its the end of the world if a system doesn't support it.

It's like the industry is being taken over by information entropy. AND WE DON'T WANT TO BE DEALING WITH THERMODYNAMICS, WE JUST WANT TO PLAY FUCKING GAMMMMMESSSS

most of these are just confirming rumours but i agree with kida, a lot of these sound better than the rumours made it out to be. the backwards compatibility thing is only an issue because every system offered it last generation, and ps2 the generation before. it's never good to take away a successful feature, even if it's not used by a huge percentage of people. why mess with a good thing? so they can have an excuse to re-release these games in compilations and HD packs without people having a cheaper alternative. that's why people are mad :P

Hmm... participating retailers? Sounds like Microsft may charge a fee to stores for the privilege to be one of these participating retailers.

XBone launches in November for $499.  Your move, Sony.

Ugh, I think I'm going to stick to retor gaming for awhile. :P

Just saw the sneak potash for Killzone 4.....hmm....this is the PS"4", right?  It looked no different than anything I've seen on the current gen systems.  I haven't been wowed by anything yet by either company yet.

I was a lot more impressed with what Microsoft showed off today than I expected...until I saw the price.

On the other hand, new Killer Instinct...

people will have to really stop buying new hardware for the graphics only and focus more on the games. we're at the point where unless someone comes up with some completely new way of programming game engines, the graphics aren't going to change that drastically. it's not like we're ever going to see another snes to n64 level of transition, and it's all about minor refinements now. they will of course be noticeable after more time (compare launch title 360 and ps3 games to current games, it's a big difference), but year to year it's not going to be that big.

It would be if devs didn't have to design by the constraints of consoles.

Killer Instinct is developed not by rare but double helix. Known for amazing games as Silent Hill Homecoming and battleship. Wow MS you messed up yet again

$500 is waaay to much for me to jump in right off the bat. Curious to see more about Killer Instinct and Crimson Dragon. Otherwise the presentation was a disappointment for me. I want to hear more about the online and used game stuff.

...Crimson Dragon - the version of the game that the developer cared about after they cut off the limb that was the awesome Side Story on Windows Phone. THANKS FOR NEVER ACKNOWLEDGING THAT YOU BROKE YOUR GAME, GROUNDING. I SHOULD SEND MORE THREATENING EMAILS THAT YOU'LL NEVER RESPOND TO.

Love Crimson Dragon, but they have the worst customer support.

I don't understand what you just said :/

Gamestop's trying to push Xbone preorders. The girl at this store told everybody that "They're only getting 12 in the first shipment." Some of the people she was asking specifically asked about the PS4, and a couple were talking about trading in their 360 gear and only wanted a PS4.

Even casuals are learning the truth behind the next gen, and they don't like it.

Grounding "fixed" a supposed game exploit in Crimson Dragon: Side Story, the Windows Phone-exclusive release of Crimson Dragon. It was supposed to interface with Crimson Dragon, a Kinect-required Xbox 360 game. However, Crimson Dragon was delayed until the Kinect 2 was released alongside the Xbox One, which removed a bit of the game's features and functionality. The game was still awesome with those things removed, but after they "fixed" the exploit, they completely broke the in-game economy.

After fixing the exploit, you had to earn ~3200 jewels to max out your skills to earn the last achievement in the game. However, you could only obtain 660 jewels from the GPS feature (10,000,000 meters physically traveled btw, which took me 4 months to find out there was a maximum), adding friends to a leaderboard to unlock jewels with their scores (even with 15 people on my list, that only gave me ~60), or to unlock them via gameplay (which at best was 1 jewel every 3 stages, which took ~8 minutes). Since I put 6 months into the game, I wanted to finish it, but Grounding NEVER ONCE returned my emails within the 6 months I played the game, and HAS NEVER acknowledged that they broke their economy (and an achievement) BY FORCING PEOPLE TO PURCHASE $25 WORTH OF CONTENT.

...love the game, love the art style. Hated paying $20 for digital content to write off a game I spent 6 months on because I didn't want my work to go to waste. The new game is Kinect-required, so we'll see how that works out, but it'll have 3-player co-op.

Even casuals haven't heard what Sony has in store yet, and fanboys will be fanboys.
HOLY FUCK - IT WAS THE SAME WAY WHEN THE XBOX 360 WAS ANNOUNCED, AND HOW LONG DID IT TAKE SONY TO CATCH UP?

...seriously tired of people espousing that the Xbox One is DOA and the PS4 is awesome, when THERE'S BEEN NOTHING SHOWN FOR PS4 TO AMOUNT TO ANYTHING CONCRETE.

All in all, the graphics look pretty, but I didn't really see any games that would make me buy. Certainly not at $499. I'm curious to see what Sony does this evening.

Chill bro

I will once people quit with the fanboy crap. I tried watching the E3 presentation and had to turn the chat off because of the obnoxiousness of Sony trolls. MS fanboys are pretty bad, but I seriously want to injure Sony fanboys. They're worse IRL. I just wanted to see people's reactions to the conferences, but as usual, fanboys ruin shit.  :no:

I might just shut off the internet if this shit continues.

I just want to buy them all but I can't support MS at all. I am curious to what Sony shows but not counting my chickens before they hatch. Nintendo. Well I do want to hear more about X Bayonetta 2 and Sonic. As it stands now Vita and 3DS will serve me well til at least next year.

Fair enough. I know enough about both new consoles, and think they both have their own niches. However, the interesting thing about the new generation of consoles is that they'll be extensible enough (IMO) to change directions should they decide that their marketing strategy doesn't work - just apply some new software updates, maybe add a new extension or two of hardware, and you have a completely rebranded console. I don't see Nintendo having that possibility with the WiiU should things turn south (any further), which is why I have concerns about Nintendo's product.

I just really want to see something I want to play. I was pretty happy with the free games announcement for gold members (I'm already a subscriber, so why not), but there wasn't much to get excited about.

The EA press conference was the same. The only game I am interested in doesn't come out for a year and a half (DA: Inquisition).

I can understand your frustration with fanboys, Shadow. I've been a 360 guy, but it is REALLY easy to poke at Microsoft at the moment. Might be just as easy to pick on Sony after their conference tonight.

I didn't realize that Crimson Dragon was gonna be a Kinect title (it should have been obvious in retrospect). That makes it considerably less appealing unless they have a standard controller method as well.

I was super psyched to see that Mirror's Edge 2 announcement from EA. I'll actually have to purchase an EA game now!!!

I just picked up Rocksmith a couple days ago, finally. If it's decent I could see myself purchasing the next one solely to mess around in session mode. Other than that Ubisoft had nothing for me. If South Park has a retail release I'd be interested in that one too for sure.

Well, if you need a copy of Mirror's Edge 2, you know who to ask... I'll be waiting in line at work for that one.

How many Exertainment Bike's do you need to leak me an early copy ;)

I lol everytime someone says the WiiU is next gen.

lol

Depends on if I still have access to our burn lab. Also, I doubt you'd want an early copy - you'd want a late Alpha copy for something that was functional. ;)

Quite being realistic and start figuring out how to score me a finished version of the game several months before its actually finished!!!!!

It is.

Parts of it are. The memory in the WiiU leaves much to be desired.

what makes it next gen the fact it's their newest console makes it part of the next gen systems. If people are hell bent on only tech making it next gen then PS4 and XBO are already behind

The LE Day One system has me slightly more interested.
But then i would be paying 500$ for a collectors edition system i had no games to play on.
And the hardware will more than likely be faulty.

But damn do i love CEs.

I hate it. But i am wanting it more and more.
Sony make an announcement so i can go back to hating next gen or being indifferent at the very least.

Sega licenses consoles all the time - they're not considered next gen systems. It'll just end up being when people arbitrarily draw the line on when the next generation is. I have a feeling it'll end up being when the new systems launch, due to the major different in technology vs. the difference in technology between the Xbox 360/PS3 and WiiU.

And even that ends at the end of the year, I feel that is a lost opportunity for Microsoft. PS+ offers alot of bang for the buck.

SO, no DRM at all, no restrictions on PS4. What does MS do now?

Suffer, judging by the crowds reaction. I don't see how the Xbox One is going to compete with PS4 now.

EDIT: And $100 cheaper? Take my money

Same here. War over. Take my money.

Yep. Sony is the winner in my books. Price is reasonable. Gamer-centric ecosystem. Used games are accepted. Sign me up.

The box is kind of ugly though.


Are you jumping ship?! Duke a Sony guy?!

I don't know about "war over" but Sony didn't do anything to help MS today, that's for sure.  Neither system has me on day one.  I'll probably be in the market for one of them in the holiday 2014 time frame when there is a more established library for each system. 

Until then, I have a backlog to work on.

It's already up for pre-order on Amazon. If I had $400 at the moment I would pull the trigger.

You're silly.

No online required, $399, and I can play used games. I wasn't planning on buying at launch, but I'm a sucker for new technology.

Sometimes. ;)

When Sony first released the PSX shortly after the Saturn for a cheaper price... well we all know how that ended. History to repeat?

I used to be too.  I'm trying to be more rational with my purchases in my old age. Saves me more dollars for retro games.

Silly is good.

You noticed I said "if" I had $400. Guess where I am putting my money this weekend. ;)

I guess we'll be doing lots of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwYUGtI6guY

Sony has gotten my vote. Ps3 had a weaker launch than 360 but I think Sony has gotten it right this time. If Microsoft backs off from the online gaming and no used games I think I'd still not buy cause they need to learn a lesson for not being so damn greedy. 

Take note and learn dont bite the hands that feed you.

BUT! If you preorder the Nextbox via the 360 dash board you can get an achievement!
http://www.trueachievements.com/Microsoft-Store/achievements.htm

well we know where $500 of izret's money is going

Well you can cancel the preorder.

Also someone said they preordered with an old gift card and still got credit.
That way it would end up declining and they wouldn't have to worry about trying to cancel it lol

I scrolled through the games listed on Bestbuy for preorder. The only things that interested me (with no knowledge of game play) were Halo and Ryse. Halo probably won't be out until 2014 and i have read that Ryse looks like it will be disappointing so i am still not super interested in getting one.

Did catch a few shots from the Sony conference and was HIGHLY amused at them pointing out no DRM and used games would still be there. (Since last i saw they had said those decisions would be up to the pubs/devs)

It may be worth noting that in Australia the price difference is a little less severe.
[img width=462 height=346]http://i.imgur.com/RwpBrUM.png[/img]

That's it, I'm getting a WIIU

PS4 will be region-free.

http://kotaku.com/the-playstation-4-is-region-free-512543811

PS4 will make you a sandwich if you're hungry while you play games.

http://kotaku.com/the-playstation-4-is-region-free-512543811

does PS4 offer "happy endings"?

Kinda disappointed at how the PS4 console itself looks.

Since I already posed X1 & PS4 prices figured I'd share that it's $428 (or $348 basic white) for the Wii U here.

Looks a bit like the lovechild of a PS3 and an XBone, but hey, region free rocks.

No. PS4 is inexpensive, but it isn't cheap. PS4 is the console you bring home to your momma.

The PS4 is too good for me. It's making me really self-conscious.

Considering GreyGhost linked to the region-free article five times I think I know what he will be buying.

Yep, XBONE and a bag of cocaine.  ;D

Awesome.


Sony is requiring a PlayStation Plus subscription for online play this generation.  This makes me a bit disappointed, but at least it will still come with free games to make up for the cost.

Microsoft vs. Sony:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YOh-rpvjYg

Did anyone else literally lol during that Sony presentation? Those jabs at Microsoft were very blunt. I thought it was really freaking funny.

As much as the console sounds fantastic to me Sony really didn't put any games out there that looked appealing though. I have no doubt they'll eventually have a butt-load of stuff I'll want to play, but launch looks pretty bleak on both consoles for a guy like me.

Just went to my local game store they will not be selling the xbox one or any of its games.

Holy shit. I wonder how many retailers will take this stance.

Probably not too many.  You can't make money if you don't sell something.  As much as I dislike the XBone, I think it would be stupid for retailers to not carry a major game console.  Sure, most gamers and collectors are upset with Microsoft's policies for the console, but I doubt most casual players will care too much.  Granted, they may opt for Sony's console on the basis that it is cheaper (Or even the Wii U, for that matter), but I don't think Microsoft will be sitting on tens of thousands of XBones during launch season.

EDIT: There are also rumors of certain GameStop stores selling out of pre-orders.  After 2 console launches, I think Microsoft knows how to create demand now by limiting pre-orders.  Also, achievement collectors are certainly going to want to buy the console simply because of the Day 1 achievement.

The girl I talked to this morning when putting in my pre-order for both consoles said that Microsoft had it set up kind of annoyingly for pre-orders. They are allocating these special Day 1 consoles to EB games store based on the sales volume of the store. We have two stores in town and they will be getting 6 at one store and 16 at the other. That's it for EB games here apparently. After the Day ones are taken care of they expect regular orders to be available for people a little bit down the road.

She said that Sony had no limits imposed at this time and they could just keep taking orders until Sony tells them to stop.

Whoever deleted my posts, they weren't duplicates. Each one was a unique joke.  ;D

My local shop is doing the same thing.

i probably won't be buying either at launch. the Wii U was the only system i ever bought day 1, and i have enough systems that don't get much love as it is. i'm sure i'll get one or both of the others eventually, but we'll see. if microsoft's policies don't change then i probably never will for the XB1, because i don't see a system that requires a network connection as collectable. once the infrastructure shuts down, the games won't work, unless they patch it to be more open before shutting down.

Microsoft had a chance to really blow people away with E3 they instead tried to drive the point home that the Xbox one is for gaming. I think they failed because not only did they not show alot of games they did not show alot of features that would make it stand out from the PS4 and it is 100$ more . I am not a real fan of the Xbox exclusives so i have no reason to continue buying Microsoft and i will not i want a gaming console not a damn entertainment hub and for 499$ unless you're a serious fanboy i don't see why anyone would buy a Xbox one But that's my 2 cents.   

I have to agree with GamingGuru about the XBox exclusives. The only one I liked and cared about was Alan Wake (then Remedy disappointed me with the game's sequel but that's another for another day).

I'm definitely going with Sony for this console generation. Not sure I'll pre-order the system though, because, like techwizard said, its launch line-up doesn't appeal to me all that much. I'd rather wait until there are a good chunk of titles I'd like to play then I'll pick up a PS4. Needless to say I'll still be playing lots of PS3 this holiday season.

@Crabby, did I read your post right? Did you pre-order both consoles?

This is awesome.  It's like E3 1995 all over again (although I would have like a $299/$399 versus the $399/$499 price point).  You could almost hear MS collectively suck their breathes in when Sony announced the price.  Great stuff.  Still not sold, though.  I'm thinking 2016 for a purchase.  This will give time for plenty of games to come out and become discounted.

You can get the achievement just for pre-ordering, and cancel your pre-order. It's a 0 point acheivement, just like the Xbox 360 Inner Circle achievement for the launch team.

How else am I gonna know if they are any good? ;)

If anything, Crabby can just sell them at his store. :P

Wow, I would have expected you to be one of the last guys to pre-order one of the systems. Now I see you've reserved both! What alternate reality is this?  :tinfoil:

Frustrating thing for me is that while I have no love for Microsoft as a company, I do tend to like their exclusives more than Sony's.  I own most of them for each so far, and I really like Gears, Halo, Panzer Dragoon Orta, Alan Wake, and a few others.  inFamous, Killzone, Resistance, Little Big Planet, and other Sony exclusives just didn't connect with me, and I did give each game in each series some time to grow on me.

Now, Crimson Dragon, Killer Instinct, a new Halo, and new exclusive Titanfall (which looks like it was made just for me) are on a system I have no desire to support because of a business practice that prevents me from collecting or having ownership of the products I pay for.  Sony, on the other hand, told me everything I wanted to hear (except the requirement of Plus for Multiplayer.  I have Plus but most of my friends do not) and a price-point I can get behind, and yet the only games shown for it that I want to play are ones that are not exclusive to PS4 (Battlefield 4 and Destiny.)

It's a disappointing split.  Meanwhile, though Nintendo is playing things almost annoyingly safe, there are at least as many Wii U games that interest me as anything on the horizon for the other two.  A sequel and a remake to two of my favorite Zeldas?  I've enjoyed every Smash Bros, Mario Kart, and Pikmin game thus far and the new ones are looking great.  Not to mention a 'new' Etrian Odyssey, SMT IV, and Project X Zone. 

Come to think of it, if I only picked up the 3DS games I'd like as they come out (and catch up on my backlog for the system), I could completely overlook the big boys for a good year  and probably not miss much.

Like Shadow guessed its store related and not something I plan to have in my home anytime soon.

I'm in the same boat with you - Sony exclusives never really captured me last cycle, and they're not capturing me so far this cycle. I can't say I agree with some of Microsoft's policies, but most of them don't impact me as a gamer (collector, on the other hand...).

I can't wait until someone makes a comparison video with the platforms to compare computing power and overall gameplay for something like Battlefield 4, which would take huge advantage of Microsoft's cloud computing. Curious if there's a major difference.

I'm assuming it'll be like every console generation; the games custom made for a console's specific hardware will be amazing, (MGS 4, Halo 4) there will be crummy ports, (Bayonetta, FFXIII) and most cross-platform will be close enough that most gamers won't care either way (Call of Duty, Battlefield 3.)

It's here that Nintendo's lack of comparative hardware power is a bonus to me.  I'm not interested in ports on the Wii U; I can get that on other systems.  I want unique experiences on the Wii U that I can't get on the other systems, and the hardware divide can help developers focus on the unique setup the Wii U offers instead of just making the same games across all three.  This is the ideal, of course, and while Nintendo wholeheartedly goes there, third parties notoriously don't.  Good thing that Nintendo is such a talented developer; as much maligned as the Wii often is to 'core' gamers, I sure have had a lot of fun with it.

If it's one thing Nintendo knows how to do, it's to craft a compelling and unique experience on their consoles. I'd love to own a Wii U and play many of its offerings, but there's just not enough content there yet to justify the purchase. 3DS, on the other hand, keeps slapping me in the face with the awesome titles they've been getting, but I just don't have the time to devote to my 3DS with all of the mobile gaming I already do on my Windows Phone (trying to crack the Top 150 right now in the world).

Same deal on the Wii U for me, though that may change by the end of the year.  I've puttered with phone gaming in the past, and Plants Vs Zombies was my first break-though on the platform, but given my feelings on digital and the temporary nature of phone games, I just lost all interest in them.  I had a small collection on my iPhone before it died, and I never was able to recover them.  It just drove home the exact concern I have for the XB1, and keeps me invested in 3DS as opposed to mobile.

Microsoft's new policy for only keeping digital offerings in your history for 3 years is going to seriously bother me as well. They already had 0 history for Zune purchases on the phone, but now I'm going to lose most of my delisted arcade games now when I transfer consoles? :'(

If you have the Zune software installed on your PC you can see you phones purchase history. Delisted games will not be listed there.

Right - you can see delisted on Xbox Live Marketplace. Seems silly.

Wow, Don Mattrick has the solution to all your problems. Don't have constant access to the internet? No problem! Then we have the 360 for you. Check out the comment at 1:51.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTAKSBvuT-A

Its two douches trying to outdouche each other.

In other news...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=71H69yDZ6W4

I made it 30 seconds through that video. It is terrible.

I made it three seconds.

I thought about deleting the post the video is so bad. That way no one else wasted their time.

OMG HE'S TALKING ABOUT THE SUB!! HE KNOWS ABOUT THE SILENT SERVICE CART SUB!!!! QUICK, MOVE IT!!!



UGH, I just read that EA is "rebooting" Mirror's Edge into a sandbox style game. I went from extremely exited and optimistic to very sceptical all of the sudden. Why reboot it anyway when they did it right the first time?

two different EB Games locations that i called today answered the phone with "EB Games, pre-order the Playstation 4 here, how may i help you?". i laughed that they made no mention of XB One

Best Buy sent me an email telling me to preorder the PlayStation 4. GameStop sent me an email telling me to preorder the Xbox One. Amazon just completely ignored me.

I received the same Best Buy email. Nothing from anyone else yet.

I got 3 email from EB games since Monday. 1 to pre-order the Xbox one, 1 to pre-order the PS4 and 1 suggesting I could pre-order either system.

I had two local Gamestop stores' employees actually tell me NOT to preorder the Xbox One and get the PS4 instead. Even though the Gamestop CEO has gone on record as supportive of Microsoft's One.

Something is very, very wrong here.

I have to ask, why couldn't you reclaim your iPhone games? You should be able to just log in and redownload any purchases onto any other iPhone. Moreover, everytime you synced it to iTunes it made a backup of the entire phone so you could restore everything at any point back onto the same iPhone or a new one.

Now that is a load of BS! Having a time limit on your redownloads is total crap. They might as well call it a game rental rather than a purchase.

that's what all digital games are essentially...the server infrastructure won't run indefinitely.

That's what all multiplayer games are. Unless you get fans really dedicated putting up servers, the devs aren't going to run them indefinitely.

that too, but at least multiplayer only games aren't that common (not counting MMOs).

Yeah, but even if a company some day goes bust you'll still have a good run, 3 years is a very short time though. I mean heck, I still use redownload services all the time on things I've purchased well over 3 years ago. I just can't believe they have actually imposed a lifespan on people's purchases... I just find it out right outrageous.

I have doc I bought more than 3 years ago and still haven't even loaded

You don't "own" anything on Xbox One, you just have permission to play the games from Microsoft. They should've just called it the Redbox One.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-06-14-the-xbox-one-question-why-did-microsoft-do-it

Thanks for posting the article. I agree a digital future is inevitable but enforcing the same DRM policies on the physical copies is not the answer. We have recently seen Microsoft back peddle on Windows 8 (Windows 8 Blue) due to consumer complaints. I wonder if they will do the same for the Xbox One.

Interesting, although it does make you wonder what will happen with the first "digital-only" consoles (which may eventually be the PS4/XBone).  The article stated that consumer acceptance of digital restrictions are due to the option of physical releases balancing the intransigent nature of digital.  When physical ownership is gone so is that balance.

Local Gamestop had signs and were pushing the PS4... No mention of xbone

I was in EB Games yesterday and I was advised against an Xbox One pre-order during their PS4 pre-order speech.

I have no idea what is going on in the heads of those in the digital space in "pure console land."  I believe what happened on the PC was partially out of necessity as PC was seen as more and more niche, so more did the retail options for purchasing games disappear.  The other part is the Steam platform (which is my opinion is a pure fluke) which has made the "pure digital" option (and it is still an option) actually palatable.  I mean, Far Cry 3 was on sale for less than $30 during one of the Christmas Steam sales just last year...  less than a month after its release.  This will NEVER HAPPEN on the console digital platforms.  But then when you buy a console you are pretty much signing up for that companies DRM anyways before you even get any software.

While we're crapping on MS's bad choices, I just learned that Microsoft was the first corp to jump on board with the United States' PRISM data collection tool. (http://rcpmag.com/Blogs/Scott-Bekker/2013/06/PRISM-and-Microsoft.aspx)  Nice way to grab ahold of that wang early, guys!

I've been by three gamestops with PS4 signs.


"pure digital" is not a niche or a fluke. It's the way things are going to be...Steam was not a fluke at all, it was just a bit ahead of its time.

With the rising costs of fuel and the expanding of hard drives, there's no good reason game distributors SHOULD be producing and shipping by now archaic metal discs all over the world. Cutting that aspect out alone should drive down the costs of games dramatically. Of course it won't really  because the console companies think they have the market cornered, and hell they kind of do, but as this whole Xbone debacle has shown, the consumers have teeth.

That's why what Steam does with it's sales is the absolute best DRM. They offer people the products they want for an affordable price. That way people are inclined to pay for it, to support the developers, to do it all from the comfort of their chairs.

This is the way the music industry went, and this is the way the movie industry has been heading, albeit kicking and screaming, for years! There's no reason games shouldn't too.

I do understand that a lot of us here collect or collected physical games, but those days are undoubtedly, if not a little sadly, numbered. That does not mean we have to cover our ears and shake our heads at the advancement of technology.


I would wager that in a few years you'll be streaming games a la netflix. It just makes complete sense with the way technologies are headed.

Come on, Leon.  That's not what I said.  You don't have to "take me to school."  Granted, I am sitting at a desk, with a sharpened pencil and a couple pieces of lined paper.  And I am wearing this uniform...  Fine.  Whatever.  Just so we're clear, I'm leaving when the bell rings at 3, regardless of your dire warnings of a test tomorrow. :P

In a way I'm kind of disappointed that the console industry isn't going pure digital yet.  I believe that the consumer backlash from a digital only console would actually force game publishers to become competitive with their pricing in a way that they otherwise wouldn't.  After all, you are buying into a company's DRM the second you pick up a console, right?  At least you could get some good prices on the games as well.   

Haha, didn't mean to sound condescending if I did.

Now come here for your caning!

I found an interesting article that says Microsoft wouldn't come out with the announcement they did if they weren't 100% certain Sony would have a similar model. It's a good read.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-06-14-the-xbox-one-question-why-did-microsoft-do-it

I posted the same article on page 16 of this thread. I thought it was a good article.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVzNxbryJ4o

Hilarious

I want to give lots of love to THESE GUYS.
(yea boo them microsoft fuckers though)

So was Microsoft getting boo'd. or Killer Instinct? I'd figure the latter is looked down on in something like EVO. I'd guess some of the hate for Microsoft would be them buying Killer Instinct into the tournament.

Oh well, haters gonna hate.

There were no boos until the mention of MS.

I would be booing KI if the rumor i heard is true.
One fighter at launch everything else is paid DLC.

That's no rumor... That's why they're giving away Shadow Jago with pre-orders.

Wow, something that MS needs to learn about the competitive side of gaming is this. You don't just throw elbows until you're in the tournament, hell Nintendo was going to pull Super Smash Bros. Melee out of EVO and they got booed because the community wanted that game IN the tourney, but for much different reasons. The Melee stream has smashed viewership records, so EVO wins this round.

The players and fans got to decide, without Nintendo intervention, that Melee is a kick ass competitive fighter that is based on skill and most importantly, its balanced. This is the same reason that Brood War became huge in Korea, Warcraft 3 dominated in Europe and China, Counter Strike got massive worldwide, and Street Fighter II arcade tourneys paved the way for the modern large events. Killer Instinct on the other hand is nothing but Ultra Combos and thrown controllers, its hardly a game I think of when I think of Fair Play.

Ultra Combos - pulled off when your second health bar is flashing red, and you're essentially dead?

Looking MS is digging a deeper whole by the minute. It's like the Xbox One is everything people hate about modern gaming distilled and compacted together with none of the good stuff.

that video was painful to watch, for the awkward way they tried to carry on their announcement and the really shitty video quality.

INDEED.

Has anyone else seen the new Xfinity X1 commercial a million times already?
All i can think is they loved MS idea and decided to run with it.

Just wanted to put this out there...
http://www.wpcentral.com/xbox-one-will-be-able-run-without-kinect-plugged

"but any feature or experience that made use of the sensor would be made unavailable."

great that it's not required now, but this line is pretty vague, we'll have to see exactly what is unavailable without kinect.

Controller functionality, power, VOIP...you know, all those things you don't need.  :freakboy:

What else is left for them to go back on now?

Put some good JRPGs on it and I will buy a box. I will wait a few years.

If they take out the internet connection I'll buy two!!

So I guess the question now is, have they been able to sew their foot back on after all this.

They just grew a new one with stem cells