RF Generation Message Board

Why is it that modern gamers seem to think game companies owe them something? Like if a game doesn't turn out the way they personally wanted it, it should be remade just for them? I don't remember this being a problem in past generations, but I was also not as active on the internet back then.

Do you have an example of this?

My wife and I refer to it as the "Entitlement Generation". Kids these days are entitled to anything and everything they want. We can't do a day in a store without hearing a kid complaining to their parents and making a scene until they get it.

Then those are sucky parents. Unfortunately, that's a lot of them nowadays...

The "always on" culture that society has embraced is something that I feel has contributed a lot to this. There are a lot more ways of to obtain instant gratification on the web and electronic devices than there ever was in the past.

I think Shadow hit this one on the head.  In addition to bad parenting, people are used to getting instant gratification, and narcissism seems to be completely acceptable.

Mass Ef
Mass Effect 3 is a good example.

To piggy-back off Shadow and what he calls it the "always on" culture, I think its availability of a medium to bitch on and the anonymity to do so.

Back when I was knee-deep in trying to score tickets to the TMNT band concert, if I didn't like a game, the most I could do was tell my buddies not to rent it...and then play it anyway because I was stuck with it for the weekend ;) I didn't have the worldwideinterwebs to wage a tri-lateral twitter/facebook/whatever assault of whatever displeased me.  Nor did I have the protection the web offers to say whatever I damn please without worry of any condemnation. 

But, times change and those avenues exist now and gamers use them AND it works for them...didn't Mass Effect 3 release different endings because of all the backlash?

I'm not sure if its just people whining or an industry evolving but game companies will chase whatever they can to increase that bottom line and I think we're all stuck with it.  Who liked the new Mass Effect 3 ending better than the original?

ME3 didn't get different endings, just more exposition added to them.

All the stuff stated above, combined with my general dislike of people, are the very reasons I hate to go outside. I'm highly jealous of anyone who can cope with such nonsense going on around them.

It's no less entitled then the retro era. Just see more of it because of the internet. Read GAMEFAN Magazine in the early 90's and fans were just the same. Kids in the playground were the same as now why such and such is better on what game or console why something sucks. Just now the internet allows us to see more of it.

Remember when many of us were kids in the 80's and 90's and had to save our money for weeks or months for a new game, then we bought Silver Surfer or Total Recall?  Younger gamers these days have no reason to bitch, and especially when their games are bought with their parent's money.

I'd like to add that it is not just video games. Nothing is immune. In my college's student lounge tonight, I was eating a meal between classes and this chick was straight tripping balls because I was eating a chicken sandwich from Burger King. She was make a face like she could vomit at any moment and pretty much telling me what I should and should not eat from there. Gamers are the same way. "You like [game]? ugh! Disgusting pig! Get away from me and refine your tastes!"

I agree with Ryudo on this one. I think if there is a shift its not nearly as drastic as many of you guys are making it sound. People have been tools for as long as I can remember.

I'm in agreement with Crabby and Ryudo.

This is why I feel so at home on RFGen and with its members and generally avoid any interaction with members of other, more mainstream sites.

If anything, people have the same "douchbagetry", but more avenues to publicly display it.

Those are what we call "Miserable, soul-draining harpies whose sole reason for existing is to spread pain and displeasure amongst all they come across".  You usually discover them when discussing entertainment, food and other things that don't matter in slightest in the grand scheme of things.  However like a few people have already said, this is hardly something new.  It's just much harder to avoid people like that now.  The internet is a terrible mistress.  She gives with one hand and takes with the other.

If you ever want to jump head first into the very font of entitled bitching, complaining and "I'm better than you" shots, head over to the World of Warcraft forums sometimes.  It's like one big concentrated ball of idiocy and self-importance over there.  If I'm ever in a bad mood I like to go over there just to stir stuff up and get those yokels all worked up.

The continued entrenchment of on-demand entertainment and resources inevitably effects culture.  Before microwaves and fast food availability, dinner took as long as prep-time and oven cooking, often with the only other options being eating cold leftovers or going without.

Now with such near-immediate alternatives, taking well over an hour to prep a meal on a daily basis is near unthinkable in the first world.  (What was once a necessity is now an occasional luxury.)

This is clearly visible in electronic entertainment, as has been mentioned in comments above.  Most of us 'elder' ;) gamers here worked hard for the occasional game, and played it because there were simply no other options.  Many of these games we would play even if we knew they weren't very good, because they were much more the center of our entertainment lives at that moment.

Now for one of many examples of the modern differences, many of the most popular (in terms of players) games are on phones.  Portable phones that much more readily accessible than any console.  And these games are generally free or under a few bucks, cheap by any measure of inflation. 

Another example is how a person in any affluent country does not have to wait for only two or three AAA games every year or two, as it was in times past.  Many years ago we were used to building expectation for the handful of gameplay experiences (and not much else, save for a few games in our collection we played countless times.)  Now, hardly a month or three goes by without some big-deal collector's edition featuring a game with a huge budget.  Through Steam and Playstation Plus, we can purchase entire collections in one shot, with no real hope to ever play through each one.

To paraphrase a raspy-voiced Snake; Gaming... has changed.

And so has our gaming culture.  Reading a Nintendo Power from the first several years feels, in writing style and design, like you, the player, are part of a special and elite club of great fun.  Codes to games are 'Top Secret,' not on tap at Gamefaqs.  Screen shots of a new game are there to ogle and daydream over, not be digitally posted and each pixel counted to determine a disappointed resolution.  The back of some  other magazines had gamers offering to trade chunks of precious gaming hardware and software in a mail order swap-meet of mutual interest, instead of us eager collectors looking to snipe Ebay and Craigs List.

Now, I'm not some cranky coot wearing rose-colored glasses, and I have a genuine appreciation for classic, modern, and all gaming, and a fascination for the decades of development in between.  But as video gaming finally reached the cultural entrenchment many of us wished for in our youth, now we have to live with the mentality and sense of entitlement such a culture produces. 

Years ago, if something about a game ticked someone off, they may write a letter to Gamepro.  Nowadays we have:
http://www.gameranx.com/updates/id/12172/article/entitled-dmc-fans-want-president-obama-to-pull-game-from-shelves/
The vitriol spreads through social media, and weird things can happen that wouldn't have been conceivable only a few years ago, like the Mass Effect ending expansion.

(Personal note, for what its worth, I really enjoyed the trilogy and felt the endings, both original and expanded, were superb and holistically complete. My PM box can redirect such discussion from this thread.)

So, we've always had the entitled folks that somehow think a luxury device generally developed for entertainment is subject to each individualized whim, but the power of modern communication and new methods of software modification means that the relationship between the gamer and the industry is in a new phase.

I agree with Crabby on this one.  The only reason people notice more is because there is now a medium to hear it more on.  What Ryudo said, about the playground?  Totally true.  I remember a kid when I was 12 saying that Metal Gear was crap, and when I said that I thought it was cool, he berated me.  Why?  Because he was a delta-bravo, that's why.  This was in 1989.  Now go back twenty, thirty, fifty years.  Heck, go back one hundred.   Do you think kids didn't carry on back then if they didn't get what they wanted, or not exactly what they wanted?  I believe the real problem is that too many people just jump on board this whole "Entitlement Generation" bit without really thinking about it.

I don't know about you guys, but games were far too expensive to buy on my own in the late 80's and early 90's.  I only got games for Christmas and my birthday (and once at Easter).  Michigan offered return deposit for cans and bottles, but I tended to use this for game rentals ($3 versus $50+).

I agree that it has always existed - I'm just saying that I'm seeing a lot more public displays of it, even outside of the social media networks. Maybe the parents in my area are just relying on TV, Internet and Video Games to raise their children (EDIT: Aware that this is a baseless argument, but it's more a commentary on what I keep hearing as "bad parenting"), but entertainment as a whole seems to be catering more towards it and the media is doing its best to sensationalize it.

I see where you are coming from, Shadow.  Like many others pointed out, there are now so many places for kids to vent their strangeness it seems like it's up in everybodys grill these days.  Personally I don't see it as much, but I think that is more indicative of my own dismissal of online culture than anything else.  My formula: I don't play online games anymore of any kind and I only frequent forums and discussion groups where people act like they would in real life (which is about five).

Finally someone in this topic got it right. "Entitlement Generation"? Really?

I read a good article on game design the other day.

http://techcrunch.com/2013/01/12/what-games-are-the-fun-boson-does-not-exist/

It claims that developers are becoming a bit too reliant on analytics and the result are lots of big name titles that are either unoriginal, or less than fun.  They are designed around what's popular because that's what sells.  If you've seen the film Big, you'll know the type of administrative culture I'm talking about within the entertainment industry.

Fortunately, there are a few model developers who know how to grow and nourish a fan community, but not become complacent to their own success.  I'm talking about Bungie, Rockstar, Blizzard, and Capcom.  They tend to reward their super fans who like to do artistic works or special gaming stunts.  This doesn't mean they cave in to demands and criticisms on their games.

Complaint threads on community forums are always entertaining.  They always whine about something because it isn't exactly like their other favorite game, then state that they're quitting forever, as if not-playing a game makes their opinion more significant.  Typically these are followed up with a number of posts saying "good riddance" or "call the waaaahmbulance".

my favourite is when people complain that a new game is too different from others in the series, and then simultaneously complain about a different series that never changes.

I once heard someone say (in the context of M:tG players) that manufacturers could "include $100 bills in their products and players would complain about how the bills were folded". I think this definitely applies to gamers of pretty much all types.

I give it plenty of thought...and then watch "Battle Royale".

It could be worse.  At least your generation isn't know as "Generation Y."  I hate that one.

After reading gaming threads in old usenet discussions, I've come to the conclusion that no, nothing is actually all that different.

Nerds are just ultra whiny.

Back in my day, we could count the console's bits on one hand, and we liked it, daggnabit!

They're so entitled they can't even take a friggin' given name like "Generation Y" they call themselves "Millennials".

Isn't that something the media uses though? I certainly don't call myself a "Millennial" even though I would fall under that umbrella.

I think it's more sociologists than the media, but yeah, I don't call myself that either.  However, it should be noted that most sociologists consider Gen Y to be the next "Greatest Generation."  Suck it, Gen X'ers!

i don't like the whole idea of giving a generalized name to a generation. i'm just a 90s kid to me.

I have no issues with this. I never frequent any gaming forum. I do not use Twitter. I do not use Facebook. I do not read gaming news sites. And I do not talk to people about games except on rare occasions.

People complain about the silliest of things. Not just gamers.

Look at life back in, say, 1850. Or even 1950. Everybody today is incredibly rich. That includes most of the "underclass" and working class families. The minute Apple releases a new iPhone, every homeless hobo and his dog seem to have one, each. 50 year ago, your iPhone would be the single most valueable thing on earth. We're all incredibly rich by any standard, compared with even the richest man in the world a couple of decades ago. Remarkable.

I always tell people this. We are largely blithe as to how insanely well we have it compared to the vast lot of previous generations. In our time the poorest family has the ability to live better than the king of England did just a century or two ago. Woody Allen's Midnight in Paris did well in suggesting how man is always unhappy with his place in history, but that were he to go back he would realize the lack of amenities, the sameness of existence etc.

I don't know about older children, but I can see how this is developing in my own seven-year-old despite my best efforts. I am extremely strict and frugal, but her attitudes are definitely shaped by our modern world.

She she has literally never lived at a time when you didn't have a phone and the Internet available 24/7 in your pocket. She has never seen wired phones or network cables. Her Internet has always been extremely fast. She has always been able to go from wanting to watch a particular show, to finding it on usenet, downloading, and watching within minutes (the rare times I allow her to watch television). She can communicate, via video, with her family anywhere in the world at virtually any moment she wishes. Everything has been fast, wireless, and convenient since the day she was born.

Our modern world is that way. There is no going back, at least until we run out of oil. Our lives are fast, wireless, and convenient. People who were alive when it was not this way have some appreciation for how things have changed. People who have always see it this way just expect it to always be this way. I'm not sure of the direct correlation to entitled gamers, as I too have seen the griping in older game magazines and usenet, but there is clearly a change in overall attitude that could exacerbate the problem.

no matter how much technology advances, i still hate seeing kids under 12 walking around with the newest iPhone. besides the guarentee of having an expensive phone get destroyed in some way, it's just giving young kids way too much without them ever having the chance to live without it. they're not going to appreciate things as much if they came out of the womb connected to the internet. besides that, it's not a very safe thing to do. everyone always suggests parents actively monitor their child's internet use to make sure they're on age appropriate websites, but how do they plan to do that with a phone the kid can take everywhere? parental control locks only go so far, and many of them can be easily broken by a kid who knows how to google search.

i agree with Zing, that kids now will have little appreciate of the things they have. i'm sure it's like that for every generation, but the internet is a much bigger generational difference than most that have come before.

"The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for
authority, they show disrespect to their elders.... They no longer
rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents,
chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their
legs, and are tyrants over their teachers."
   -Socrates, 5th century BC

The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They talk as
if they knew everything, and what passes for wisdom with us is
foolishness with them. As for the girls, they are forward, immodest
and unladylike in speech, behavior and dress."
-Peter the Hermit, 13th Century AD

Every generation thinks they were better then there kids.  The truth is that today's generation actually cause less crime and have higher IQs then any time in the last 40 years.

(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/420_354502951329260_1721887747_n.jpg)

Yep, no country for old men.

Last 40 years or ever?

40 years puts us into the mid 70s. Vietnam vets were coming back and joining/forming biker gangs(like after WW2) and/or just not in the best shape mentally.
I certainly hope we are doing better than that now as far as crime goes. We should be able to keep that 40 year streak going since the 80s and 90s were good for some serious violence.

As for higher IQs whenever i have to deal with someone my age or younger i almost always feel pity for the future.

EDIT
Thinking more about it the lowest crime rate in 40 years thing sounds like a load of crap. My city was on an ever raising spike until a couple years ago. Hard to think we went from being in the top 15 most dangerous cities in the US to being a safe happy place for everyone to live again.

I read somewhere that the literacy rate in Detroit is down to 50% now.  That's terrifying.  Is that cultural or economical you think? 

Given I am 2 miles west of Detroit I can say its an economical issue.

Da schollzz be broke 'n all dat shitz ya know what I beez sayin'?

Sounds like a cultural problem.  I'd like to know what the rate of single parents is in Detroit.

Yes, we are getting smarter. A recent study estimates +3 IQ points every ten years.  But that is an average and it's not much.

Why can't it be both?

Gaming's probably the ultimate first world problem.

That, or bad coffee.

Tell the truth, truth teller! :)

The two go hand in hand.

Detroit's problem is both cultural and economic.  The city has been hemorrhaging people since the "white-flight" purges of the 50's, to the point that the only people left are the "old guard" group of people that will never leave, the drug dealers and other criminals (who are also on their way out, following the last wave of people), and those that live in poverty who can't afford to live elsewheres.  The problem is...  too complicated to get into.  What were we talking about?  Coffee?

Sorry I am so late to reply.
I have some sources for the earlier statments.
Increasing IQ: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect
Low crime rate: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/24/us/24crime.html?_r=0

I say every generation is different, not better or worse, just products of there time.