RF Generation Message Board

Over at Nintendoage there was a thread (one of several) where members were debating whether a Nintendo World Championship cart belonged in a complete collection or if it was an exception and why. There were people from both perspectives defending their choice and it was mildly interesting until just recently when Howard Phillips decided to chime in on the subject. Here are Howard's thoughts on an NWC and a complete collection, which I think is awesome and fascinating!

"Funny thread : )

Nintendo's Gold Seal of Approval was a copyrighted mechanism for providing customer assurance that the game that was sold in the package bearing the seal had successfully passed Nintendo's quality control process. To some customers this simply meant the game would function "normally" with the NES (it was not uncommon for videogames to crash of function inconsistently back in the 80's). To other customer's the seal meant the content was deemed by Nintendo to be "acceptable" for play meaning it did not cross certain lines related to sex, violence, race, and drugs. Lastly, Nintendo's Seal of Approval gave retailer's a little bit more confidence in the context of the then-recent Atari / Colecovision retail debacle.

The Licensed by Nintendo statement on the game screens satisfied the legal notification requirement that the game code and hardware incorporated Nintendo intellectual property. The Licensees were required to include said notification on their game screen.

Nintendo's own games included the appropriate Nintendo copyright notifications on the game screens.

The NWC cart was not published or sold and was created by and "used" by Nintendo itself (for the contest) and so didn't need either of the first two certifications above. The fact that Nintendo gave away some of the carts post-contest had no bearing on the legal notifications.

The above said, my answer to the original question "Do you consider the NWC to be part of a 'complete set'" is...no. Completionist Collectors should feel fully satisfied knowing that they have "all" of the Licensed (or separately unlicensed) published games released in "x" territory. This said, the existence of variants begs the question of whether a collector needs to have one of each variant for every game. The individual collector has to decide for themselves if this is important to them of not.

So what "place" do I think the NWC cart has in a collection?

For me, the NWC is a special acquisition as it represents the true "heyday" of Nintendo - the time when Nintendo had 95% of the videogame market in the US and enthusiasm was so high that a multi-city festival-like event and competition was successful. Videogames as a whole, not just Super Mario or Zelda, had "made it", becoming a legitimate and lasting form of entertainment. The 1990 NWC marked that time and place and so for many, the NWC cart holds a unique place in history, and for a select few, a prominent place in their NES collection. "

This is an interesting debate. Howard Philips certainly shed some light on the place NWC has a collection.

My opinion: Yes, it does belong in an NES set, but it's not required. I would say that this cart represents Nintendo, and video gaming as a whole, becoming a pop culture icon and because of this significance NWC should be in a complete set.

If you've got the cash to splash, go for it!

If NWC is required for a full set, then both the Silver and Gold are required for it, and the Blockbuster World Championships would be required for Sega Genesis...

I'm sorry, but wallets everywhere would cry themselves to sleep.

I'm with Howard on this one. I don't believe that NWC Gray/Gold is required for a licensed fullset as it was never a licensed/approved game.

I dont believe it is part of the set. It is just icing on the cake.

I feel that both NWC carts as well as the Blockbuster World Championship sets are required for a "complete" collection for either system.  It's my all or nothing nature.  I wouldn't look down on someone that has every single game except for either of the NWC carts, but I don't think it's "complete".  I feel the same way about homebrew games to a point.  As long as it's an original game that isn't just a rom hack of an existing property, I consider it part of the complete collection.

Of course that brings up the question of pirate multicarts and the like, but that's one of those completely arbitrary lines I've set for myself.  Anything that feels "piratey" to me doesn't count.

I don't take umbrage with anyone who only wants to collect every licensed NES game calling their collection complete because they did complete what they set out to accomplish.  However it just doesn't feel complete in the overall view of things.

Christ, I don't think I've ever used the word complete so much in my entire life.  I'm placing a 24 hour moratorium on that word for myself.

It's all in the linguistics.  If 'complete' US set means everything ever available in the US, sure, but 'everything' would literally have to include every variant, mail-order, prototype, etc. to fit the definition.  (Talk about not only expensive, but nigh impossible...)

Does 'complete' mean every title available for sale through some retail channel?  Then obviously no, and strike protos and such but keep variants.

Does 'complete' mean only one complete copy of every individual game available in any capacity in the US?  Then yes to NWC and protos could be nixed as a subheading of variants.

If we start mentioning Homebrew titles as necessary for completion, then all bets are off...

Will someone 'in the know' always ask if your 'complete' collection includes NWC?  Of course. :P

It really is one of those things that is going to vary from person to person.  It's another reason why I love this hobby so much:  There's no wrong way to do it.  Except through emulation, of course  ;)

lol

Wow, Sauza12 has really echoed my sentiments almost to the point I shouldn't bother to write.

"Complete" to me is just a word people use to justify a stopping point. There is no such thing unless we want to clearly define a list, but at that point it is still arbitrarily someone's own choices. I see so much discussion surrounding NWC, but next to zero for Huge Insect. Neither are officially licensed, so why the disparity?

Huge Insect isn't NTSC-U, which is why it doesn't get the coverage.

In my opinion, I don't think it is necessary to have a NWC cart to have a complete set.  But you know what they say about opinions.....

The game was never for sale.  It doesn't count.  Simple as that.

I hear they are a lot like 32x games. And I dont mean that everybody has one.......

i think whether or not a collection is "complete" should only cover games that are officially licensed. and it should only take into account one copy each of the actual games themselves, i don't think variants should really have any place in whether or not you have a complete set. unlicensed games, special events/promo ones like NWC, homebrews, variants of any kind, are all icing on the cake.

i think this is why a lot of people say they're going for a "complete US licensed NES collection" or just a "complete licensed NES collection". then others sometimes say a "complete NES collection including unlicensed games and(/or) NWC". things like that are why i think the licensed games are all that should really count towards complete. everything else is just an extra, added onto your collection as part of your personal goals for the set.

this is just opinion of course, but it's how i usually see people defining their collections.

I think of a complete collection i think everything that was available at retail. Yes that includes unlicensed. You guys need to get off your highhorses about that :-P

Not necessarily all the variants since in most cases it is still the same game. Notable exceptions would be things like Fable: The Lost Chapters where the Platinum Hits version had a bunch of extra content where as Halo, Halo Platinum Hits, Halo Best of Platinum Hits, Halo BEST OF THE BEST OF THE BEST SIR Platinum hits* were all the same thing reskinned.

*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXRi28W-ENY

Awesome.


I think Howard said it best.  NWC wasn't really a release as it was only for the competition.  When I think of a complete set, I generally think of all licensed games that have been released for that platform.  I don't regard unlicensed titles as part of a complete set, unless they're so integral to video game history like Tengen cartridges were.  I feel that most unlicensed games are garbage, and for me aren't part of a complete collection.

i only say no to unlicensed because it's a vague term. licensed is clearly defined

Unlicensed carts aren't part of a Complete Licensed set, obviously. ;)

I'd imagine anyone wanting a complete set, period, would probably want to get unlicensed stuff, variants, homebrews, etc.

I don't really think of it as an unlicensed game because it was produced by Nintendo for the competition.  But to have it in a complete NES Licensed set is not necessary because of the aspect of anyone who wants to complete a set and does will always be missing those two carts because they weren't distrusted massively.  SO in point it wouldn't be fair to make it part of a complete set.

Stadium Events was also not distributed massively.

^I think SE is part of a complete set because it was officially released by Nintendo.  NWC was not officially released by them, so I don't consider it part of a complete set.

Yep.  NWC is one of those super rare things that's really cool to have, but in no way was it ever meant to be owned by the public other than the people that were in the contest.  If NWC counts, then where does it stop?  Why not add a Playchoice 10 while you're at it...that's sorta a thing.

I agree, but in response to GamerNick, scarcity shouldn't be a factor.

SE was also recalled and pulled off shelves. Doesn't that technically mean that Nintendo revoked their license, and it's not considered a part of the set?
*stir the pot a bit more*

I have a list of the last 62 NES games I need to complete my set. NWC is not on the list (and I don't own one obviously).

Wasn't available for sale, doesn't count.

In that case, are we to count the Legend of Zelda:  Collectors Edition for the Gamecube in a complete Gamecube collection?  It was only available in the US as a give away from Nintendo Power or for a limited time you could send away for it with the purchase of a new Gamecube.  It was never available for retail sale.

Same thing to some extent with the Ocarina of Time Master Quest release.  It was offered as a bonus for preordering Wind Waker, though for a very limited time in certain regions it came packaged with Wind Waker, though that was a disc only copy.  Should we consider that part of a complete Gamecube collection?  Should just the disc count?

When I bought my Game Cube the Zelda: Collector's Edition was included right in the box. It was available for purchase right then and there. You had to buy a Game Cube to get it, but you still could purchase it. The Master Quest, well, thats a different story. If it came packaged with Windwaker, then you could purchase it, and it counts.

I bought MasterQuest/Ocarina for 20$s at Circuit City...

no.

zelda collector's edition came bundled with systems

Since it's a special thing and never had a retail release in any form, I would say no. I would say only retail games count and anything else is just bonus stuff to have.

Bil just says no because it doesn't have a box. ;)

I stand corrected. 

for me, I'm not big on variants. I'm currently aiming for an eventual complete US Dreamcast set. But I don't feel I need to have Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure (Sega All-Stars) and Sonic Adventure Limited Edition... just one copy of the game means I have that game. Y'know?

Agreed not for sale to the public doesn't count.

My current goal is to obtain all the licensed retail releases so NWC doesn't qualify for me. If I were to go for all official Nintendo releases I'd count it for sure though.

I agree with this sentiment. I will buy a variant if I come across it and it's a good deal, but I'm not going to seek them out unless its something I really want (like if I want ALL Zelda variants, etc)..

^
Never ever ever ever say you are going to try and collect all the variants for *insert game title here*

Trust him on this one.

lol Mortal Kombat... hahaha