RF Generation Message Board

I am almost positive we had a thread about this before but i can't remember if i ever supplied pics.


For those who have never seen it, I believe all 3 of our podcasters said they had not, here are some side by sides of the same game:
Madden 2005 for Xbox

http://sdrv.ms/TSmnTk

You're correct, I have never seen this myself in person. Very interesting, and something to be aware of before. I am pretty sure there was a post or blog about this sometime back.

Are you sure it is disc rot, or just damage to the label side?

Duke, I can confirm that disc rot exists, and it's not just damage. Someone on Digital Press had to replace their copy of Panzer Dragoon Saga 3 different times due to it, even going as far as ordering a NIB copy and having to replace one of the discs because it had rotted in the case. If you need, I'll find a couple discs I have lying around and use the flashlight trick to show you the pinholes that have developed in the data layer.

I've even got a few Atari 2600 cartridges that were given to me that have corroded through the pins... If anyone wants any donor carts, or needs to replace some shells, I've got 50 or so cartridges available. :P

I have lost two 360 games to Disc Rot

Nope definitely rot. That is why i did the side by sides :)

I do have a few other discs where the data portion(whatever the metal inside the polycarbonate is) is still perfectly intact but the disc has what looks like a water stain.... i guess much like when a puddle is left on wood.

Disc rot?... Anyone know what causes it? I've got loads of old games discs and music CDs I'd hate to lose...

i think i actually have seen that before, possible even have a game with it but i don't think any of mine have problems working that i know of...i've seen some with what i thought was a stain of some sort, but it must have been disc rot.

I believe the most credible theory i have heard is a problem in the manufacturing process combined with tempurature/moisture fluctuations.
Something to do with the polycarbonate not being cast correctly.

I am sure there are some instances where it is more common then others either based on numerous factors.
Production materials, environment, age are the first things that would come to mind and i would rank them in that order for the cause of failure.

I guess I'm safe as for as moisture is concerned. Living in the driest state in the driest continent after all, but with all of the factors it sounds like luck plays the biggest part.

I believe noise posted the article a few years ago.  I, luckily, don't have any discs with disc rot.

It's definitely related to the manufacturing process, and the use of materials. Dreamcast and Saturn games are large suspects in this, as you'll find that a lot of Dreamcast and Saturn games have these issues. Moisture and environment just accelerate any issues at all.

I'm the PDS guy, I think; that was pretty much my story.   :(

And... I'll just leave this here.

http://www.rfgeneration.com/blogs/slackur/An-important-note-to-Video-Game-Sellers-and-Buyers-1337.php

A bit of an odd suggestion maybe, but regarding the pinholes...

In a factory pressed disc, the reflective foil doesn't technically contain the actual game data. It just reflect the laser back, the data is stored in the grooves of the plastic. Assuming that it's really just the foil layer 'rotting' and developing pinholes, and not say an actual nick on the surface layer (damaging the plastic underneath as well as the foil layer), couldn't you theoretically find something similarly reflective and just "fill in" the pinholes? I have no idea what you'd use to do that, though.

I mean if a disc is seemingly damaged beyond repair anyway, it can't hurt to try.

That only helps to prevent disc read errors - it doesn't prevent data loss. We do similar things here at work, and I've done similar things with my credit card to prevent it from erroring out at the register by filling it in with permanent marker.

My question is if the data is actually 'lost' if the foil layer is actually rotting as opposed to top layer damage.

Hmm, that's a good point. Unfortunately, I don't have one of the foil discs at home to check - most of mine have true pinholes in them, missing both the foil and the label itself.

I found a couple of pinholes in a couple of my Saturn and Ps1 games, but the games in question had a few scratches anyway and the pinholes are located on areas of the label where it's blank and you can see the reflective foil underneath. There's no way to tell if the pinholes are actually from rot or if they're just label side nicks. Plus, the games in question all work fine without issues, so even if I attempted a 'fix' I'd have no idea if it worked or not.

Still I think it's an idea worth keeping in mind.

Try running it through a program that validates the data contents. Did you verify that it was in a section that had data burned?

I'd assume even if it were only the reflective layer, the precision angle the laser needs to reflect the data would be near impossible to regain, since it is calibrated to the inside of the disc and the disc cannot be 'opened' again, so to speak.  But I honestly wouldn't know.

If you know of a free program I can do that with I'd be happy to check real fast.

EDIT: well turns out they have redbook audio, so i guess at worst I might expect mild audio skips in gameplay.

Got a bad case of this off some weeaboo in a kawaii Princess Peach costume on halloween couple years back,.

Sounds like a lyric in a Futuristic Sex Robot song...

Was he hot at least?